Geeking Out with...Dave Pasquesi (Part Two) by Pam Victor Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - 0

 [“Geeking Out with…” is a series of interviews with well-known, highly experienced improvisers. It’s a chance to talk about stuff that might interest hardcore, improv dorkwads like Pam. The series can be found in full frontal geek out version on My Nephew is a Poodle and in pithier version on the Women in Comedy Festival blog. For behind-the-scenes action, ‘like’ the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page.]

“They make it like breathing.”

-Susan Messing on TJ and Dave

***

In Part One of Geeking Out with…Dave Pasquesi, we covered Dave’s introduction to and training in improv, the benefits of following your fears, and his stint as a cowboy in New Mexico. As we moved into our second geek out session together, I began to realize that my luscious, terrifying challenge was to avoid the quicksand of seeming precious and assish while partaking – sometimes in sips, but for me in great, greedy gulps – in invigorating brain quaffs of improv philosophy. The joke is on us, I suspect, as Dave Pasquesi couldn’t be farther from a precious ass if he tried. (Lordy, I hope he uses that quote on his website some day.) Thus, we pick up the conversation with a continuation of his interpretations of the lessons of Del Close.

***

PAM:  You mentioned in our last interview that you follow Del Close’s instruction to perform “characters played as a thin veil.” I would love to hear you expand on that please.

DAVE: I think it was for a couple reasons. First, because none of us were accomplished actors, and that if we were busy 'acting' then we would not be honestly responding in the moment.

Also, our type of performance and comedy is not broad characters...more simple and honest. So we are ourselves, but with slight exaggerations.

David Pasquesi

[I am reminded] of something Del said. That the line is not finished until you recognize it was received.

PAM:  And how do you show it was recognized? Internally or by expressing it with the yes-and…?

DAVE: Mostly just a recognition in the eyes.

PAM:  Lovely.

This is a complex topic disguised as a simple question: How best to honestly respond only to the scene and other player? 

DAVE: By paying close attention.

PAM: Simple answer that takes decades of work.

Yes, Mr. Pasquesi, you are known and respected widely for your ability to pay attention. More like Pay Attention. Or PAY ATTENTION. Not a command, just a full-bodied, full-minded gift.

DAVE: TJ and I go over every show immediately afterwards. If there was an error, the cause is always that one of us did not pay close enough attention.

PAM: Hence the pace of your show, which facilitates receiving the message.

This is tricky to break down, I know - maybe I'm asking you to parse out bits of fog or magic – but can you talk about the moment that happens after you receive the message? There is a great deal of attention being paid in that moment as well.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is what people are seeing you do when they remark at your uncanny ability to Pay Attention, and what that feels like from inside your mind and body.

DAVE: Hmm. The reason to pay attention: We've been told that your scene partner is the most important person on the planet. If that's true (and it is), why wouldn't you want to learn all you can from them?

Also, my scene partner is the answer to all problems...again, why then would I not pay very close attention?

I don't know how anyone else "listens," but I think the goal is to have a frame of mind that is not, "Oh, good. I'll be able to use that as a joke later on."

Also, I would not recommend being in my mind.

PAM: Ha. I'm sure I've seen worse.

Is your goal, when doing improv, to be in a constant state of discovery?

DAVE: Exactly. Rather than fabrication. Discovery of what is already there, not what I can make it into.

PAM: What specifically do you do to meet that goal and to get into the realm of discovery rather than invention?

DAVE: I’m not there yet, but I've been at it for a while. And all that while, I have had relatively the same goal for improvising.

It’s really is a lot about faith. That I am going to be fine without all my great ideas.

PAM: So you're saying, to get in a space of discovery, you set that as the goal?

DAVE: That's what I think. It isn't going to happen by accident. It has to be intentional.

PAM: So you set an intention to remain open to discovery and resist the prescribed?

DAVE: Yeah - but then this conversation becomes even more precious - about how not to resist, because that is giving it attention…and other nonsense ideas like that.

PAM: (We don't want to get precious.)

DAVE: (Please. Promise me.)

PAM: (I would love to promise you anything, but the line between “precious” and my intense curiosity to step inside your brain/process is thin and wavy.)

DAVE: I do think it is not about resisting, but remaining open.

PAM: I see. [Though it’ll take another decade of work, I suspect, for my improv soul to truly see.]

I’ve heard you often talk about your show in a way that sounds almost spiritual to me. For instance, in the documentary “Trust Us, This is All Made Up,” you said that the scene is going on before you take the stage, and you just step into it for an hour or so. When I hear you say that, it conjures images of a Zen concept of “flow” or that ancient Greek philosopher who said, “You cannot step into the same river twice.”

Do you think of improv in a spiritual way or is that just the way you have chosen to describe it?

(Was that precious??? Are you making barfing noises?)

DAVE: For me, I have chosen to describe it that way because I believe that those are the best terms.

(Yes, but because I am actually barfing.)

PAM: (Hahaha! On the plus side, barfing is not precious at all.)

DAVE: I say, faith and trust…and, yes, love about improvisation. You have to have those things. And not for any other reason than the scene usually does not work as well without them.

It is not so much spiritual as it is effective. (And I happen to believe the same of spiritual things, too.)

PAM: There is much Zen in improv. That's the book I've always wanted to write.

(But then people would barf all over it.)

(So I guess the cover would have to be waterproof.)

DAVE: Or pre-barfed-on.

PAM: lol. By famous improvisers. So everybody out there needs to save their barf because they might become famous some day!

DAVE: That’s a contradiction in terms: "famous improvisers."

PAM: Ha. In our little circle, famous.

Ok. I think I've said "barf" sufficiently to David Pasquesi. If I was a normal person, I would be horrified. Speaking of which, people seem to find you quite intimidating, as I'm sure you have heard.

[At this point in the interview, there was a lengthy pause.]

Oh, right. And they say you don't respond until you've been asked a question. I've heard that too.

[Another lengthy pause.]

Ok. You win…

Does that resonate with you?

DAVE: Me being intimidating to other people?

PAM: Yeah. Do you hear that and say, "WTF?" or...

DAVE: I don't really understand that, no.

PAM: Improvisers have said to me that you're the guy whose respect they most want to earn. (I think that's pretty cool.)

TJ and Dave

Moving on...

Much ado has been made, in certain circles, about that “First Moment” in a TJ and Dave show, the one when you look at each other and gracefully step into your characters. Do you ever look at TJ and think, “Oh crap. I got nothing”?

DAVE: All. the. time.

PAM: Hahahaha!

DAVE: Fortunately, that doesn't seem to be the problem I think it is.

PAM: Because there is always something…if you trust?

DAVE: Exactly. Mamet said something like, "The interchange between two people on stage is always occurring, is always unplanned and is always fascinating...."

Even if I don't trust...it does not require my approval.

PAM: In the beginning when you started working together, were you specifically looking for something or just opening up yourself to what was there already?

DAVE: It is always happening. I don't need to add anything to it; I just need to find out what it already is.

As I recall, we were just trying to let some unknown thing unfold one tiny moment at a time. No plans. No great scene ideas or stories. Just the next little, tiny thing.

PAM: Exquisite.

Do you think this skill - this art - you and TJ share is learnable/teachable? Or should I just stick to playing endless rounds of Freeze Tag?

DAVE: Dear God.

PAM: lol.

DAVE: By the way, Freeze Tag is a children’s' game. Switch is a theater game.

(A pet peeve.)

PAM: Sorry. My troupe, like many, changes the name of every game.

Ok then. Switch.

DAVE: Almost no one calls it Switch, but that is still its name.

PAM: The trend shall begin anew here.

DAVE: I think the way TJ and I communicate is kind of rare. I had a connection on stage with Joel Murray. We were roommates in college. We traveled all over the place together. We cheated at cards together. We had a history. So it made sense that we had a way of communicating that was exceptional.

But with TJ, we were pretty much strangers when we started doing our shows. And yet, we seemed to be on the same page/plane. So, I think one thing (besides logging hours on stage trying this stuff), is to find a like-minded person. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

Speaking of old Greeks, how do you get to the top of Mount Olympus?

Take every step in that direction.

PAM: Nice.

Is it true you and TJ don't hang out together off-stage?

DAVE: Did you hear that from the same people who say I am intimidating?

PAM: Gosh. I don't know where I heard that one...I heard the intimidating thing from Jimmy Carrane's Improv Nerd podcast, by the way. But it was confirmed by a friend.

So that's a big, fat lie?

DAVE: What's a lie? Intimidating or hanging out?

PAM: Hanging out.

DAVE: I used to say after the first year of shows that I had known TJ for 52 hours.

PAM: Right. See?! I didn't just hear that shit anywhere. YOU said it.

DAVE: We travel a lot together. We spend a lot of time together. I was just at his house in western Massachusetts.

He's never slept over.

PAM: Ok, so no TJ and Dave slumber parties. Got it. That fantasy is off the list.

DAVE: We'd get no rest.

Oh wait...he's never slept over here.

PAM: But you've had slumber parties on the road? Or is it more in the tent behind your house?

DAVE: A tent behind my house is also the road.

TJ and Dave from my seat in the audience
UMass - Amherst, 2012

PAM: My favorite moment in one of the shows I saw recently (the one at UMass - Amherst) was when you were laughing at something TJ’s character was riffing on. It was sort of a rare peek into you as a person, and I found it incredibly delightful. What makes you laugh most?

DAVE: TJ.

My friends are really funny. They make me laugh the most. Friends, my brothers, my kids.

PAM: In a video interview, you said that you thought improv was “beyond comedy…that’s the way to fix the world.” Can you expand on that beautiful sentiment?

DAVE: Jesus, who do I think I am?!

PAM: Hahahaha! One badass, intimidating motherfucker. Face it, Dave. You are Shaft.

DAVE: You noticed earlier the similarities in descriptions of improvisation and spiritual matters (at least the way I talk about them). I think that these simple things -  principles - they work in improvisation. And they work in the rest of our lives as well.

Play at the top of one's intelligence.

The other person is more important.

Follow the fear.

PAM: Staying in the moment. Trusting. Being true to others.

DAVE: Yes…yes.

PAM: Lovely.

DAVE: Improvising is like a safe practice area where you can do the things you don't dare in real life...yet. In a scene, you can be ultra kind without any of the negative repercussions.

PAM: There are negative repercussions to being ultra kind?

DAVE: Facetiously.

PAM: Do you still get high from improv?

DAVE: Yep. My brain works differently while improvising in front of people than it does anywhere else. And I like it.

PAM: It does feel really good, doesn't it? For me, it relates to that Zen moment. Being in the Flow. Experiencing the Now.

All that hippy crap.

DAVE: Yeah. That hippy crap is one of the things I like about it all.

***

Do yourself a huge favor and see TJ and Dave at  iO almost every Wednesday at 11pm. They also perform occasionally at the Barrow Street Theatre in New York City. And this summer, they will do a run at Theater on the Lake in Chicago from July 11^th to the 15^th, 2012. But even if you won’t be in NYC or Chicago, you can see their wonderful documentary Trust Us, This is All Made Up. It is the rare opportunity to see improv brought to the screen in a most adept fashion. Trust me, it’s true.

And while you’re at it,

Just

Trust.

***

Catch up on past improv geek-a-thons:

Geeking Out with…Chris Gethard of “The Chris Gethard Show”,

 …with Joe Bill of BASSPROV,

 ...Jimmy Carrane of Improv Nerd podcast,

 …Susan Messing of Messing with a Friend,

and many more!

And "like" the "Geeking Out with..."FACEBOOK PAGE please.

Pam Victor is the founding member of The Ha-Ha’s, and she produces The Happier Valley Comedy Show in western Massachusetts. Pam directs, produces and performs in the comic soap opera web series "Silent H, Deadly H". Pam also writes mostly humorous, mostly true essays and reviews of books, movies and tea on her blog, "My Nephew is a Poodle." If you want to stay abreast of all the geek out action, like the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page!

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Geeking Out with...Dave Pasquesi (Part One) by Pam Victor Wednesday, May 23, 2012 - 0

By WICF Contributor Pam Victor


[“Geeking Out with…” is a series of interviews with well-known, highly experienced improvisers. It’s a chance to talk about stuff that might interest hardcore, improv dorkwads like Pam. The series can be found in full frontal geek out version on My Nephew is a Poodle and in pithier version on the Women in Comedy Festival blog. For behind-the-scenes action, ‘like’ the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page.]

***

Ask any longtime improviser worth her salt to name the top five improvisers in the world, and I would put good money on David Pasquesi’s name being on the list. Even if you winnow it down to the top two, I’ll still keep my money on Dave being one of them (and his partner TJ Jagodowski being the other.) The first time I saw TJ and Dave’s show, I could hear an almost audible whoosh as my improv bar was raised high, far higher than I imagined it could go. Hours after seeing their show, and still thick in my elation, I was chatting with improv-legend-in-his-own-right, Joe Bill.

“Are your cheeks still flushed?” Joe asked me.

Amazed, I answered, “Yes, they are. How did you know?”

"Yeah," Joe replied blithely. "They do that.”

David Pasquesi

Toss a stick in David Pasquesi’s direction and you’ll surely hit a plethora of accolades, admiration and respect from audience members, critics, and, most fervently of all, fellow improvisers. This dude has gravitas. Because he excels at establishing patterns, he might pick up the stick and chuck it back at you, so be ready for that too. Was I intimidated interviewing David Pasquesi? Yes, I was absolutely quaking in my Birkenstocks. Did he immediately put me at ease with his kindness and generosity? Yeah. Yeah, he did.


David Pasquesi has achieved an impressive array of film, television, and theater accomplishments. To name but a few: He was given the Joseph Jefferson Award for Actor in a Revue for "The Gods Must Be Lazy" at the Second City Theatre. He was shot fatally in Angels & Demons under the direction of Ron Howard. He and TJ won Improviser of the Year at the 2006 Chicago Improv Festival. And in his early days in improv, he landed a spot on Del Close’s very first Harold team, the highly lauded Baron’s Barracudas. He has performed with TJ Jagodowsi in their award-winning, critically acclaimed show TJ and Dave since 2002, and if you haven’t seen their documentary Trust Us, This is All Made Up, please do so immediately. Seriously. Right now. It’s on Netflix. This article can wait while you add it to the top of your queue. (In two hours you’ll thank me, so I’ll say it now: You’re welcome.)

***

PAM VICTOR: Do you prefer to be called Dave or David? I don’t want to make assumptions and call you Dave before we’re ready to get to that next step.

DAVE PASQUESI:  No preference. I answer to either. I'll know who you mean.

PAM: You can call me Pam, but I also answer to Lola.

DAVE: Nice.

PAM: So I hear we, your fans, have a bit of serendipity and Joel Murray to thank for getting you into improv. Is that true? Can you tell a little of the story of your introduction to improv?

DAVE: My first introduction to improvisation was when my brother went to an improv class while he was attending law school. My mother almost insisted I accompany him. I was in about my third year of college.

I had never been on stage before. I went to this class - tagging along without registering.  Lo and behold, the class was full. But the teacher, Judy Morgan, allowed me to stay. I really liked it from the start. Though I was going to Loyola, my focus switched to improv. Then I read the book "Something Wonderful Right Away," by Jeffrey Sweet, and I found that Judy Morgan, my teacher, was in the book. She was in the cast at Second City with Ramis, Flaherty, John Belushi and Brian Murray…She was a great teacher.

PAM: Judy Morgan's class was at The Player's Workshop?

DAVE: Exactly. Jo Forsberg's place. Then, at the end of the workshops, you got to do a show on the Mainstage at Second City....on a Sunday afternoon.

PAM: Woah. Was that a huge deal for you?

DAVE:  It was for me. I had never been to a show at Second City, but I had heard about it from my parents for my entire life.

Then, the next year, I went to school in Rome. That's where I met Joel, actually on the plane over, and we became roommates.

PAM: Your parents were interested in improv?

DAVE: No. They just admired Second City.

PAM: So you grew up watching SNL?

DAVE: I was 14 when it started. I remember a buddy in my neighborhood telling me about these "Not Ready for Primetime Players." I was a Python fan, and he said that I'd like these guys just as much.

PAM:  Ah, a Python fan…

DAVE: Yes. Python, Marx brothers, Carson.

PAM: Favorite Python sketch?

DAVE: Silly walks.

PAM: I was just thinking that one! That's so weird.

Was love at first sight, with you and improv at that first class? What do you think about the art form struck a chord in you at that time?

DAVE: I'm not sure. It was kind of love at first sight. I sure appreciated that you kind of can't be "wrong." I know that later on, when I started to spend more time at it, I loved the hippy ideas of agreement and the power of the group and stuff like that.

PAM: So you take the class, start to love improv, and then you're on a plane to Rome...and coincidentally you sit next to Bill Murray's brother?

DAVE: Yeah. Not even sit next to. He walked by with a book, Hunter S. Thompson's "Great Shark Hunt." I was/am a fan, so I said so. Then we started drinking on the plane….we started hanging out in Rome, running around, traveling together. We did a talent show at the school in Rome, and occasionally we begged on the street where Joel would sing and I'd juggle. He has a good voice.

Joel Murray
actor and Roman sidewalk singer

PAM: What effect did your friendship with Joel have on your desire to do more improv (if any)?

DAVE: Well, we both kind of joked about wanting to work at Second City.

PAM: Joked? You didn’t think it could happen?

DAVE: It still didn't really seem to be an actual possibility, just a silly pipe dream.

PAM: Right. I hear that.

DAVE: (Still doesn't.)

PAM: Ha! No way. Really?

DAVE: Honestly. I get to do stuff and I think as it’s happening, "This kind of stuff doesn't happen," like traveling to do slow, long-form improvisation.

PAM: That's one helluva pipe dream you're having there, Mr. Pasquesi. (If you answer to that name.)

DAVE: Who are you addressing?

PAM: Lol.

It is quite amazing you get to take the show on the road. I really feel like you are longform ambassadors to the world for us. Maybe you’ll go out there into the loud, busy world, and teach people about the joys of watching slow longform…maybe even pave the way for new opportunities for the rest of us. Is that just my sick fantasy to get the rest of the world hooked on my drug of choice?

DAVE: I like it.

PAM: Me too. Thanks for doing it.

Ok, so you and Joel have your drunken, juggling misadventures in Rome...then did you come home to study more improv?

DAVE: Not immediately. I finished school, still thinking that I needed something else for a career.

PAM: Trying to parlay that philosophy degree into something lucrative?

DAVE: Oh yeah...open up a little philosophy shop.

PAM: Like Lucy in Peanuts. A little stand with a sidekick dog making snarky comments? But how many times can you answer, "What is the meaning of life?" and "Why is the sky blue?" It would get boring.

DAVE: Wasn't Lucy a psychiatrist?

PAM: Yes. Obviously, you would have to change the sign.

DAVE: lol.

(I just said 'lol.')

PAM: Hahaha!

DAVE: I'm ashamed of myself. I know what I am going to want to edit [out of the interview].

PAM: Hahaha. No way. That's staying in.

DAVE: Well, it’s true. I did "L" and it was "OL."

PAM: Ha. (I am sitting on a big ball right now, so if you make me laugh really hard, I could easily be ROTFL.)

Ok. After your misguided attempt to make money, I assume you turned back to your one true love? Where did you get your improv training?

DAVE: Ok, so....I tried to work in the actual world. And it was a great job, buying and managing commercial real estate for this small group of investors. It was a great job....for someone who wanted to do that. Turns out, I did not want to.

Then I was all set to go to Kellogg Business School at Northwestern. I had been accepted, but hadn't yet registered when I made a drastic decision. I moved onto a buddy's floor (a mutual friend of Joel and mine who we also went to school with in Rome), and worked for him as a laborer - he was a contractor -and started going with Joel to Del's classes.

PAM: You'd explored philosophy, comedy and hard labor, all before the age of 25.

DAVE: I was a cowboy on a sheep ranch in there too, between college and real estate. I also worked construction when I got kicked out of college. The stone masons were all Italians (from Italy).

PAM: A cowboy???? Wait. Kicked out? For what?

DAVE: I was "invited to not return."

PAM: Too much partying?

DAVE: Yep. It was a little Lutheran school in Minnesota. I was not a good fit for them.

PAM: That was before Loyola?

DAVE: Yes.

PAM: I'm sorry, I'm sitting here trying to imagine you on a horse, lassoing a calf...

DAVE: Sheep ranch.

PAM: Oh shit. Right. A lamb then. [Yes, dear readers, I just displayed horrifyingly bad “listening” skills in an interview with David Pasquesi. I’m deeply ashamed.]

DAVE: 88,000 acres in southwest New Mexico.

PAM: You were sitting around a fire, chewing on a stick, and thinking, "I wish I knew how to quit you, improv."

Speaking of which, back to improv - like a dog with a bone, I am - Do you consider iO to be your first, real training grounds? In so much of the publicity material, I see Second City credited as where you originate, and I always wonder if that pisses off Charna.

DAVE: Besides Players Workshop, the only place I ever really studied was with Del, absolutely. Del taught me all that I know and more than I'll remember.

PAM: From what I've read and heard of the man, I feel like he would be really proud of the work you and TJ do.

DAVE: Nice of you to say.

PAM: I was just thinking this morning about how the last bastion of players directly trained by Del Close are being pushed out of the way by the next layer of improvisers - I mean in the big picture, the mass consumed improv world - and I worry how this will change improv, how it's taught and performed.

DAVE: Wait...you mean teachers and such?

PAM: Yes. There are folks who are now teaching who were not directly taught by Del.

DAVE: Most. Almost all. But I was in classes with guys for years. I go to their classes and I hear them say, "Del said...." And I NEVER heard [Del say] that, and I am sure he would never have said that.

PAM: I mean the attributes Del promoted may not be taught as forcefully today.

DAVE: Or even known. ABSOLUTELY. That's what I've been doing with TJ for the last ten years, the exact same stuff that I believe Del was suggesting.

PAM: Exactly. Exactly what I mean. And when I think of 90% of the improv out there being taught right now, I don't see it following the same value system. Again, this is why I elect you our ambassador.

So talk about that. Talk about the stuffy Del was suggesting please.

(Oops! I mean “stuff” NOT "stuffy. lol.)

DAVE:  This is only my interpretation of what Del was promoting....

PAM: Naturally.

DAVE: (I did not L OL at "stuffy." I'm not that easy.)

PAM: (I did.) (I am.)

What are a couple major influences, things that you've learned from Del that still influence your work today?

DAVE: Playing slowly, not worrying about the audience, not worrying that they are being entertained. Top of your intelligence. Characters played as a thin veil. Honestly responding only to the scene and other player.

PAM: Ok. I don't think you know what an improv ho' I am. That was like manna. I want more. Please talk more about all of that.

Let's start with playing slowly and about the pacing of TJ and Dave. It’s luxuriously steady, unrushed, and utterly sure. The imagery that your show evokes for me is of you languidly reaching out into the air to set a real teacup on an imaginary table; and just as the cup is released, a table appears. Does that make sense?

TJ and Dave

DAVE: Awfully nice of you.

PAM: Nice or not, it's true.

DAVE: No need to rush. There is no destination to get to, no punchline to arrive at, not even any story to tell. Just unwrapping the thing bit by bit.

Del said that we're not trying for laughs; we're going for cheers. Don't let them laugh little laughs. Let it build up.

PAM: (I just fell off my ball in joy.)

DAVE: (Get back on it. I learned that on the ranch.)

PAM: (LOL. Ok, I'm back on - I always get back on the ball. I just loved all that so much.)

So this is my next question; and it's totally related to my personal evolution, but hopefully other people will relate. I've been exploring the slow discovery, and there is a struggle - particularly among players who are very tied to making the audience laugh - of what happens if the discovery doesn't lead to anything momentous. I don't think momentous is the right word - how about interesting? funny?

DAVE: It will.

PAM: When?

Wait. Ah, I see. You just set the teacup out...

DAVE: Yes. If I am following the most interesting discoveries, it will be interesting.

Now these are my beliefs. I do not suggest Del thought these things.

PAM: Yes, I understand. I'm interviewing you, not Del, here.

Good. Ok, how do you decide which discovery is most interesting? Which thread to follow?

DAVE: Improvisation is itself an exercise in faith. In faith of Improvisation. That if I do the next tiny thing, all will be fine.

PAM: Amen. (I've never gotten teary during an interview. I'm such a fucking dork.)

DAVE: And following the fear is exactly that. Follow the most interesting thing - maybe untraveled, uncomfortable - because I don't have anything funny to say about it, so that is scary...

But I'm supposed to do it anyway. Be afraid, but do it anyway. “Follow the fear” does not suggest anything about not being afraid. It requires it. TJ and I rehearse to find out that very thing for us.

PAM: Where is the fear for you?

DAVE: The brand new is frightening; but if you do it a while it is no longer new and not as frightening, so it evolves.

PAM: I can't imagine you get very fearful on stage with TJ anymore. Does that in itself scare you?

DAVE: I'm not afraid of the same things. I'm not afraid of the show sucking. I'm not afraid my scene partner is gonna sell me out. (The reason I'm not afraid of the show sucking is not that I don't think we can suck, ‘cuz we do. I'm just not afraid of it sucking.)

PAM: So what ARE you afraid of now?

DAVE: Not gonna tell you.

PAM: LOL. Chicken.

DAVE: Oh look, it's 11:30. [Signaling the end of our interview.]

PAM: Hahahahaha! By the way, you're afraid of a girl asking question while balanced on a silver ball, cowboy. Just sayin'.

DAVE: I feel that what I am afraid of on stage is immaterial. That I try to remain concerned is the thing, not the specifics. Also, Del said the job of the improviser is "to lead an interesting life, then tell people about it." I think some improvisers forget that, that the requirement is to live life.

PAM:  Good answer. Thank you, kind sir.

DAVE: Here's a fear:

PAM: I'm listening.

DAVE: That all this yammering of mine will make this sound too precious or "important.” It is just make-em-ups, after all.

PAM: lol. I'm not sure what I can do to allay that fear except say who fucking cares as long as you're enjoying the yammering? (Which I am.)

Seriously, one of the things I love about improv is that it gives you some meat to chew on and talk about and over and under, and that is like wonderful brain candy. (Ew. Meat. Brain. Candy.)

DAVE: Yum.

***

Please join us for “Geeking Out with…Dave Pasquesi (Part Two)”

in which we dive still deeper into Dave’s improv philosophy

 as he entertains my determination to get a peek

under the hood of TJ and Dave.

***

Catch up on past improv nerd-a-thons:

Geeking Out with…Chris Gethard of “The Chris Gethard Show”,

 …with Joe Bill of BASSPROV,

…Jimmy Carrane of the Improv Nerd podcast,

 …Jet Eveleth of The Reckoning,

and many more!

And "like" the "Geeking Out with..."FACEBOOK PAGE please.

Pam Victor is the founding member of The Ha-Ha’s, and she produces The Happier Valley Comedy Shows in western Massachusetts. Pam directs, produces and performs in the comic soap opera web series "Silent H, Deadly H". Pam also writes mostly humorous, mostly true essays and reviews of books, movies and tea on her blog,"My Nephew is a Poodle." If you want to stay abreast of all the geek out action, like the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page!

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Geeking Out with...Susan Messing (Part Two) by Pam Victor Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 0

By WICF Contributor Pam Victor

[“Geeking Out with…” is a series of interviews with well-known, highly experienced improvisers. It’s a chance to talk about stuff that might interest hardcore, improv dorkwads like Pam. The series can be found in full frontal geek out version on My Nephew is a Poodle and in pithier version on the Women in Comedy Festival blog.]

If you don’t know the answer to “What can we learn from ‘Doublemint Twins Get Fucked Up the Ass’?” then you’ll probably want to read Part One of “Geeking Out with…Susan Messing” when Susan and I got our geek on about her improv history as well as her approach to teaching improv. In this second of our two-part interview, we talk about Susan’s fearlessness on and off stage, her take on how improvisers can adopt a more confident approach, and how best to get high off improv. And apologies, dear readers, that the subject of Louis C.K.’s enthusiastic masturbatory habits comes up that for the second time in this series. I will try not to allow it to happen again (but no promises).

When I asked several of Susan Messing’s friends and colleagues to name three words they associate with her, a couple fine lasses couldn’t resist the opportunity to add a few more words of love and gratitude for Susan:

From Angela V. Shelton of Frangela:

“LOVE LOVE LOVE THE SUSAN MESSING! Of course, she's one of those people it's impossible not to love, not to laugh with, not to let her smile make you smile...No one, and I mean NO ONE has more joy and generosity on and off stage at Second City. She improvises the way that kids do - it's fun and not just about getting a laugh...She LOVES to improvise, she's an amazing actor and improviser, and she is utterly without ego or a mean bone in body and no one has to earn her respect on stage. She takes "yes and" and "make each other look good" to heart, but I suspect that if she'd never come to Second City - she'd still be yes andin' and making everyone in her life look their very best.”

And from Kate Duffy who is a member of the improv trio The Playboys with Susan,

“Susan has the imaginative ability of a child. The ability to slip into worlds and live there with no judgment, complete acceptance, and she just builds and builds. The imagination I think we are all trying to re-capture in our work. The imagination we all had before the world taught us to worry about what others think and judge our ideas. It is inspiring and inspired. She is a joy.”

***

 "For me it was more about being brave,
which is being scared as shit
but doing it anyway with the result of flying."
-Susan Messing 

PAM: Oh, by the way, in the name of research and curiosity, I watch "Fatty Drives the Bus" a couple nights ago. 

SUSAN: Oh god.

PAM: LOL! [Readers, “Fatty Drives the Bus” is a movie directed by Mick Napier and features many Annoyance players you may know, including Susan Messing, Mark Sutton, and Scot Robinson. Joe Bill plays Jesus, so you know it’s a unique production. You can order it through Netflix if you’re interested in visiting the "Island of Misfit Toys."]

SUSAN: You had nothing Tivo'd?

PAM: I told you I'm a 'ho for improv, right?

SUSAN: That's not improv as much as it probably was an editing nightmare.

PAM: I bet. The editing was not its strength.

SUSAN: It’s hard to edit something that’s improvised.

PAM: It was sort of Fellini meets Ionesco meets a couple kids with a video camera.

SUSAN: Sounds about right.

PAM: You were a highlight. As was Mark Sutton's diatribe with the flower.

SUSAN: Bless your heart - can't watch it.

I liked the puppy maze.

PAM: LOL! Yeah, that was a great sketch moment.

Speaking of watching, has your daughter seen any of your Real Live Brady Bunch stuff?

SUSAN: Nope. I try to keep her away from it all as much as possible! I don't think she's really watched The Brady Bunch, so I don't know if she'd have anything to compare it to. I assume one day she will.

The cast of The Real Live Brady Bunch 

(including Susan, Jane Lynch, and Andy Richter) 

appear on Geraldo

PAM: Do you try to keep your daughter away from all the comedy or just the early stuff? Is she into the fact that you're a comedian?

SUSAN: I think that she's pleased with it...USUALLY she's amused. Sometimes she's embarrassed, and a few times she's been really pissed when I try to get her out of a bad mood by joking when she still is upset. Still, we went to a Marshall's last week and she suggested that we "walk funny" to the entrance but have our faces look normal.

The other day she did say that I was the coolest mommy, but that might change tomorrow. She is delicious and very, very kind. And she's a better comedian than most people I know. Seriously. Best straight man in the business.

PAM: Is there any effect that parenting has had on your improvising? Or your improvising has had on your parenting?

SUSAN: My parenting is probably far more creative because I improvise. But then again, I became a mother at 39, right before clotting age, so I have more patience than I would have had when I was younger.

PAM: Lol! I spend a lot of time thinking about how the lessons in improv are also some of the most important lesson about life too. What life lessons from improv do you bring to your parenting?

SUSAN: Just took a deep breath…there are too many. Cooperation, working together, all those Spolin-y, feel good words that would sound really trite. My daughter knows I'm on her side, and I'm not just dicking her around because I'm a grownup.

PAM: I first started consciously thinking about humor when I was 13. This is around the same time I discovered the power of a whole class of “dirty” words. The most powerful among them was “vagina.” I mean, it wasn’t even one of those absolutely forbidden words like “cunt.” Vagina was written in biology books, but you still could only whisper it – or better yet, not even say it. This is 1979, mind you, before everything was vag-this and pussy-that. As a fairly sensual person, this blue humor quickly became my default because you could get people to laugh from shock and humor. Two-for-one special. That was a long (and hopefully not overly tedious way) of asking you where your special blend of blue humor comes from?

SUSAN: Special blend? Like coffee? I don't think of it as "blue" as much as I think of it as "uncensored." Content needs to be protected so that people are willing to watch it - that includes locales, time slots, audience consideration. I don't do at Second City or iO what I do at the Annoyance, which, as far as I know, is one of the few places in the world that supports uncensored content.

I was censored on Mainstage [at Second City.] They were worried about the "Annoyance" in me. And it was great to flex social and political satire muscles...but I like to be freeeeeee too.

PAM: I hesitate to talk about your potty mouth in an interview because I question whether the whole issue is sexist. I mean, do people ask Louis C.K. why he talks about his dick so much?

SUSAN: People probably wonder why Louis C.K. talks about his dick so much. It's ok.

PAM: He really does like to masturbate an awful lot.

SUSAN: That's what I've heard...But I also think that he's a genius. So as long as he keeps his dick in his pants around me, I think he's swell…because I'm going to be married and I don't need to see his dick.

I met him once and he couldn't have been nicer.

PAM: I'm sure Louis C.K. is nice, but nobody seems to ask him why he has such an uncensored patter. Meanwhile, I've heard people ask you that quite a bit in interviews.

SUSAN: I don't question it as much as I just answer the question. But you've been doing your research and you've read that a lot, huh. Interesting.

PAM: But - Louis's penis aside - I wonder why people feel the need to bring up your uncensored style on stage?

SUSAN: Maybe because not many women do uncensored work? There was a time at the Annoyance where women actually outnumbered men or were at least fifty percent; and we were all doing and saying what we wanted, so I guess I hadn't noticed it as I was too busy having fun.

PAM: I’ve read in some interviews where you talk about giving yourself permission to go for it on stage. That “self-permission” is a quality I really admire. Some women find it so difficult to be like that – you’ve got to have steely balls, right? What gives Susan Messing such steely balls?

SUSAN: Not sure, but my dad raised three girls kind of like independent boys, and then I played with all guys on Blue Velveeta, and then certainly you had to develop a tougher skin for The Annoyance or to get through a Second City Mainstage rehearsal process… Maybe when I started, comedy was more of a boy sport and I wouldn't survive unless I grew a pair? Not sure. But it sounds right.

However, after reading [what I just wrote], I'm still not sure. Maybe I always sort of had them or at least a baby pair that hadn't descended yet. For me it was more about being brave, which is being scared as shit but doing it anyway with the result of flying.

It was worth being kicked in the balls.

PAM: One of the things I admire most about you on stage is your relaxed yet balls-to-the-walls confidence. That admiration was confirmed when the adjective “fearless” came up A LOT when people were asked to describe you. Does that come from years of improvising on stage or is that a quality you just embody naturally?

SUSAN: I am always scared, but my desire to create supersedes the weirdness I have to go through in order to create - and then I get off again. That's my standard line and it's my truth.

I think my joy is that I haven't been kicked offstage yet...and that people I play with would agree to play with me.

PAM: What is it about your performance or skills that inspire so many people to describe you as fearless?

SUSAN: I have no idea. I'm on the inside so you'd have to ask the outside. Maybe that I'm having so much fun in the moment once I silence the bullshit in the brain? Ultimately we had better have fun or the gig's fucking OVER. God knows we don't do it for the money! Still, very nice to hear.

PAM: And playing with the brakes off is most fun for you?

SUSAN: Brakes off, right into a wall. Yes please.

PAM: Yeah. See right there. I think that's what people are talking about.

What advice would you give to female improvisers on how to play with more confidence and labial fortitude?

SUSAN: Oh…the JOYRIDE. That's rough because part of me had to take the ladies out of the equation and put us all in the people category. How about you do what you do, I do what I do, we shove it in a world, and it'll all work out fine? At the least, when you want to give up and/or blame it on men, that's the exact moment you recommit. What if, god forbid, we were all RIGHT? What if you couldn't be WRONG? What if you were exactly what was needed at that very moment?

And maybe, just maybe, because no one has told me I'm WRONG in a very long time, they think I'm RIGHT; when in fact, I'm just making sure to have more fun than anyone in the whole wide world. And that shit's contagious, and then I'm so grateful they get my gig and we're all happy. -By Susan

PAM: Brava!

SUSAN: You just pulled that out of me. Not me.

PAM: [Insert compliment-deflecting dildo and/or tampon joke here.]

Do you ever hear the ugly "You suck" monster whispering in your head during a show? Or are you past that?

SUSAN: Nah. We all go there for a bit, and the SECOND I go there I recommit to the moment and reinvest in myself, my world, and my friend. And by being in the moment it's as simple as smelling, touching, tasting, fucking, right the fuck NOW. So I'm too busy doing all that to listen to the stupid voice. I can hate myself on my own time.

PAM: What type of experiences make you fall in love with improv all over again?

SUSAN: New and old friends to play with, the excitement from people in the audience who've never been there and the ones who come back again and again and sometimes every week, the beauty and horror of this art, students who have epiphanies...all of it. All the stupid and glorious lot of it all.

But then I'll take a little break because it's nice to make a real cup of coffee instead of miming it.

PAM: Ha. Well said. That should be on a t-shirt or something.

Are there any skills or techniques that you’re working on right now?

SUSAN: Not that I'm consciously aware of, but there are elements of the work that get me off.

I stick people in worlds with other people and SEE WHAT HAPPENS. To me, even though it might work for some others, it's not, "Whoever gets on the stage first and vomits their thesis WINS." "Product" in improv means the scene's fucking OVER, so I don't groove so much to the "mad lib" style of playing, although I can stick my person in your tiresome, left-brain invented plot.

Ouch. That's harsh.

But everyone gets off differently and I get off by discovery and specificity. And justifying what is right in front of me than inventing anything better.

PAM: Wait. Now I'M getting hot. Talk more about discovery and specificity.

SUSAN: Smell it touch it taste it touch it feel it fuck it NOW. Be in the moment. The audience gets off on your specificity, not your "funny" specificity. You can eat a meal of Ritz cracker jokes, but you'll eventually say, "Did I just fucking eat an entire meal of Ritz fucking crackers?" The only way to heighten funny jokes is to be funnier and good fucking luck with that - it's commenting on the moment and not being in it. Save that for your sketch or stand up or trying to pick up that bitch in a bar.

That's my gig and it works for me and it's not right and it's right, right?

Susan Messing
having more fun than anyone

PAM: Right. What makes you cum the hardest on stage?

SUSAN: Pretty much all of it if I'm having more fun than anyone.

PAM: I just wanted to display fearlessness by saying "cum" to you.

SUSAN: Blessings to your cum. (Which looks actually odd in print.)

PAM: My she-jizz thanks you.

I’m always curious about boiling improv down to a simple skill set – that is, what basic muscle(s) should every improviser hone? What one skill or technique on stage do you find the most important for improvisers to focus on?

SUSAN: I don't even know where to begin on that. I guess learning how to be in the moment and trusting your gut instincts more?

Be seen. Be heard. Learn how to act; and actors, learn how to improvise.

Don't take it back. Own what you say and do, and then rape the shit out of it.

PAM: These t-shirt slogans just keep writing themselves!

SUSAN: I guess if this doesn't pan out I can always own a t-shirt shop.

Or work for Hallmark.

PAM: LOL. Dang. I snorted. Not Hallmark. It would be called something else, your card company. “Good Morning, Fucko” perhaps...

What makes a good improviser into a great improviser?

SUSAN: Time.

PAM: Well said.


I can't wait to see Messing with a Friend when I'm in Chicago this summer. [In the weekly show Messing with a Friend, Susan invites one of her fabu improviser buddies to do a series of two-person scenes based on a single suggestion. The Annoyance website promises it is “a joyful, uncensored, and improvised romp through hell.” How delicious does that sound?]   

Do you rehearse the show or just get up and do it?

SUSAN: I have never rehearsed MWAF and I never will. It's improv.

PAM: Is there anybody who hasn’t yet done Messing with a Friend who you’d really love to get?

SUSAN: Harold Ramis. Then I can die.

PAM: Well, I for one hope Harold Ramis never “messes” with you.

Kate Duffy, Susan Messing and Rachel Mason
of "The Playboys" at CIF 2012
Photo courtesy of Jonathan Pitts

Let’s talk about The Playboys! Sure seems like you ladies are having a blast together! Tell me about the structure of the show and a little about your process. (People will have to listen to your Improv Nerd interview to hear about the boob-touching and lip-kissing.)

SUSAN: The Playboys (Kate Duffy, Rachael Mason, and me) perform every third Sunday of the month at The DeMaat Theatre at The Second City. We are the most hateful loving hateful loving people I know onstage. Rabid ferrets. No form - maybe it looks like a form to someone, just not to us.

PAM: And how can improvisers keep up to date on how they can take classes with you?

SUSAN: We're building a Susan Messing website right now, but you can find out about special workshops and master classes on Facebook. My Messing with a Friend schedule can be seen at www.annoyanceproductions.com.

PAM: Thank you, Ms. Susan Messing!

SUSAN: You're the most best. XOXOXOXOXOXOXO

PAM: Many more back at you, newfriend.

SUSAN: Yesplease and thankyou and isthismikeonandgoooodnight.

 ***

If you're in Chicago, and you'd like to bask in the glow of Susan Messing, 

you can see her in 

Messing with a Friend at The Annoyance Theatre 

and in 

The Playboys at  The Second City.

****

Catch up on past improv nerd-a-thons:

Geeking Out with…Chris Gethard of “The Chris Gethard Show”,

 …with Joe Bill of BASSPROV,

 ...Jimmy Carrane of Improv Nerd podcast,

 …Jet Eveleth of The Reckoning,

and many more!


And "like" the "Geeking Out with..."FACEBOOK PAGE please.

Pam Victor is the founding member of The Ha-Ha’s, and she producesThe Happier Valley Comedy Shows in Northampton, MA. Pam directs, produces and performs in the comic soap opera web series "Silent H, Deadly H". Pam also writes mostly humorous, mostly true essays and reviews of books, movies and tea on her blog,"My Nephew is a Poodle," where you also can read a lengthier, dorkier version of this interview.

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