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January 24, 2011

A Woman in Stand-Up Comedy (WISC)
by Unknown - 1

By Contributor Meghan O'Keefe

I’ve always liked being a girl. I was raised to think that being a girl meant I could do anything I set my mind to. I could be smart, funny, athletic, strong, caring, or any other wonderful adjective you could think of. I never felt that being a girl made me in any way weaker than a guy. That is, I never felt that way until I moved to New York and started doing stand-up comedy.

The first time I went to an open mic, I felt it. I looked around the room and immediately knew I was the odd girl out, and by "odd girl out," I mean "one of the only girl comics in the room, and for that matter, the only girl in the room wearing a cute skirt, dangling earrings, smoky eye shadow and her hair in carefully styled curls." Every insecurity I had about trying stand up for the first time was amplified by the fact that I clearly did not fit in. When I was finally called to the stage, I did terribly. I went up without a notebook, without a tape recorder and without a clue. I was unprepared for what the spotlight would feel like or how unnerving it would be standing in front of 40 jaded comics who were waiting for me to get off stage so they could have their time. Even the mic stand terrified me. An inanimate object intimidated me because I had no idea how it worked. I completely blanked on my material and as I sat back down I realized that even if I hadn’t blanked the crowd wouldn’t have liked it because my ideas were just too … girly.

I had never before felt as though my girlishness was a weakness. If anything it was an edge. When I had done improv and sketch comedy in Boston, I knew that even though I was probably never the funniest person in a room, my point of view was important because it was a girl’s. But in the New York stand-up scene I felt like a freak. A super girly freak. Everyone else seemed cool and cynical and brooding and I was spastic and hopeful and upbeat. Even my brightly covered spiral bound notebook clashed against everyone else’s sleek, black, little moleskins.

Somehow, this feeling of not fitting in made me want to pursue stand up even more. I have this weird thing where if you tell me I can't accomplish something, I become determined to prove you wrong. My drive quadruples if you tell me the reason I can’t accomplish it is because I’m a girl. In fact, it’s no longer a challenge, but a game. The truth was, I really liked doing stand up. As terrifying and uncomfortable as all those open mics were, I felt like I was unlocking a new creative side of me. The only thing that really upset me about stand up was “the girl issue.” For the first time in my life, people were calling me “pretty” to my face, and for the first time in my life, it was the last thing I wanted to hear. I would get off stage and the host would say, “Isn’t she pretty?”, and all I could think was, “Yeah, but was I funny?” I felt like no one took me seriously because of how I looked and it frustrated me to no end.

Because I had just moved to New York and because I had just started stand-up comedy, I didn’t have the same support system of female comics to turn to that I did in Boston. I didn’t know who to talk to about the problem without sounding like a whiner baby. So, I did the classy thing and I googled every established female comic’s name I could think of, hoping for some insight into how they dealt with the issue. Finally, I came across an interview with Julie Klausner in which she gave some advice:

Q: With all of the recent talk of women comedy writers on late night TV, what advice would you give to women who aren't mousy, who take pride in the way they dress and are decidedly feminine, yet are also funny as hell and deserve a chance to work alongside their schlubby comedy peers?

A: Just advice that anybody who isn't crazy or stupid would give–don't let anybody make you feel so bad it gets in your way, and do the work you love. If it's a matter of figuring out which of your friends make you feel awful, by all means get rid of the ones that do. But if you want to succeed, make sure your work is so good that it speaks for itself, so you could come into the office wearing a pink tutu, ala The Rock in The Tooth Fairy, and your colleagues will be like, "Yay! You are here! Who gives a shit that you are crazy!"

Something finally clicked in my head. The other comics weren't cold to me because I was a girl. They were cold because I was new, inexperienced, and wasn't working a fraction as hard as the rest of them. I didn’t go to a lot of mics or shows and I had yet to kill on stage. I hadn’t paid my dues yet. Suddenly the whole weight of "I'm a girly girl and that's why they hate me" was gone. I realized that I had mistakenly displaced a lot of my anxiety about being new to comedy on my gender. I didn’t need to worry about what people thought about what I was wearing; it didn’t matter what I was wearing. I needed to worry about my comedy.

So, I applied myself. I started going to three mics a week, then five, then seven, now I aim for at least eight. I tried my best to be humble at all times. I told myself to never get mad at the audience for not laughing. I attempted to look at every mic as a privilege and not an onus. I didn't bother people I barely knew before the mics when they were writing. Somehow during this transition period I managed to write my first good joke. I know it was a good joke because it's the first joke I've ever written that will always get a laugh. And because as soon as I wrote that joke, other comics started to talk to me like I was one of them. I was no longer the silly new girl who was interloping into their world; I was the silly new comic who was working hard and who also happened to be a girl.

Meghan O'Keefe: A girl, her stage, and a mic

I'm not saying sexism in comedy doesn't persist. It does. It's ugly and horrible and still exists in small, but loud, corners of the New York comedy scene. There still is an unmistakable boys’ club vibe at most open mics and stand-up comedy shows. However, I've also been told by bookers and producers that it's somehow easier for women in comedy. How? Because we're in demand. In my own personal experience — and this is limited to Boston and New York — the really talented and smart men who are in comedy today (i.e. the ones that matter) are all really rooting for women in comedy to succeed. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard male comics gush about how Maria Bamford is their favorite stand up (male or female) working today. I've heard guys quote Brooke Van Poppelen and Jessi Klein material to help make a conversational point. Don't even get me started on how much they all adore Kristen Schaal, Amy Poehler, and Tina Fey. And those are just the big names. There are dozens upon dozens of strong, smart, talented female comics who are making their way up the stand-up comedy ladder in New York who boast male comics as their best friends and most ardent supporters.

I guess what it's taken a long time for me to say is that if I'm doing poorly, I never want to blame it on being a girl. There's no problem with me being a super girly comedian because there's nothing wrong with being super girly. If I'm not getting the laughs or spots I want, I have to examine why my comedy isn't working — not my gender. There will be people who don’t like me only because I’m a girl. Some of them will be bookers and producers and other such gatekeepers of the comedy world. But I don’t think I can convince a sexist to book me by whining about his (or her) sexism. I think the only way to conquer that is to be the funniest person I can be. The phrase for it that I keep hearing and reading is you have to be "undeniably funny." You know, so good at it that no one can deny your talent no matter what you look like, what you sound like or what you talk about onstage. It’s an idea that doesn’t just apply to female comics, but every comic.

I know that because I am still ridiculously new I still haven’t seen every side to this issue. I’m sure down the road many of my opinions on this topic will change, but I hope my attitude doesn’t. At this point, I don’t see how being bitter about sexism is going to help me be funnier. I think focusing on my comedy is the only thing that’s going to help me become funnier, so that’s what I’m going to do.


Meghan O'Keefe is a comedian in NYC. She blogs at megsokay.tumblr.com — check it out to find out when and where to catch her, live!
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January 23, 2011

WICF Teaser Show — Tonight at 9 p.m. at ImprovBoston!
by Unknown - 0


Catch some of your WICF favorites tonight, at ImprovBoston!

Tonight's Stand Up Sunday show at ImprovBoston will be the WICF Teaser Show! (Whoo-hoo!)

WICF Co-Producer Maria Ciampa hosts the show, with:
Michelle Barbera (WICF Co-Producer)

Elyse Schureman (WICF Co-Producer)
Kelly MacFarland (Comedy Central)
Carolyn Plummer (New England Favorite)
Dana Jay Bein (MTV)


WICF Teaser Show, ImprovBoston, Cambridge, MA, www.improvboston.com for tickets
January 23, 2011
$10/$7 students and seniors
9 p.m.
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January 22, 2011

An Interview with Jeff Singer
by Unknown - 0

WICF recently caught up with WICF 2011 "Step Up Your Stand Up" instructor, Jeff Singer.

Jeff has worked behind the scenes for numerous live events, radio programs and television shows. He is currently the Executive Consultant for the Just For Laughs International Comedy Festival, a post he has held for the past decade. Just For Laughs is host of the biggest worldwide comedy event in Montreal plus its recent expansion in Toronto and Chicago.

With those impressive credits, WICF is thrilled that Jeff is offering a special intensive version of his workshop exclusively for the WICF, at a discounted price for early registration (by Feb 4th).

Stand up comedians who have taken his workshop once already in Boston are signing up again, for a few reasons.  2010 Boston Comedy Festival Finalist Matt D., who took this workshop last year, says, "Stand ups should be taking this workshop.  For only $150, this is the guy you want advice from if you're serious about comedy. Sometimes you need to hear things about your stand up you might not want to hear, and people in Boston can be really nice, so this is a great chance to get honest feedback from industry.  Who else in Boston are you going to hear it from? Take his workshop and you'll see where you stand.  He definitely changed how I do stand up."

This year's workshop will differ in format to the benefit of comedians who want more targeted feedback, as Jeff will focus on more one-on-one for each comedian's stand up comedy.  Classroom sizes will be limited to just 9 people.


WICF talked with Jeff about the comedy he loves, what sets great comedians apart, and the recent comedy festival boom.

WICF: How did you get started in comedy?

Jeff: I first got started as a PA during the summers for the Just For Laughs Comedy Festival in Montreal when I was a teenager. Back when Leno and Seinfeld were on the rise to stardom. I think I still have a photo of me and Leno when his hair was longer than his chin.

Years later, after college, I moved to New York to work at a talent management company which represented a lot of stand-up comedians. I've been in it full-time ever since.

WICF: You produce and curate comedy. In your opinion, what makes a great stand-up comedian? What makes you laugh?

Jeff: Vulnerability. Sincerity. Personality. Originality. These qualities crack me up.

I'm all over the map when it comes to my personal comedy tastes, like with music. I admire a strong writer as much as a polished performer. But to make me laugh out loud, a stand up has to reveal something in his/her soul that puts everything on the line. It's having the courage to dig deep, commit, and stay true to your voice. It could be controversial material, an offbeat character, a real-life story — as long as it's genuine.

I once produced a live show called "Confessing It," where comics tell embarrassing anecdotes, scandalous stories, drunken tales, etc., as the title suggests. Jim Norton did it at the Montreal Festival years ago. He told a story about picking up a street hooker from his car, having sex with her behind a dumpster, and the shocking discovery that ensued. He told it so poignantly, a challenge given the racy subject matter. The crowd was floored and laughing their asses off. It worked so well because you could see it was difficult for him to share, was absolutely true, and hilarious.

That's the essence of great comedy for me personally.

Jim Jefferies and Patrice O’Neal are other guys who reach inside. Marc Maron has done it his entire career, and now regularly via his Podcast. Nobody is more emotionally naked on stage than Marc. Even comics who may not tell stories about themselves yet have a definitive original voice, like Dave Attell and the late, great Greg Giraldo, it's seeing and feeling that authenticity that hits you hard.

I'm not a big fan of the overly manufactured personas or characters. If it doesn't ring true immediately, I'm not buying it. There are always exceptions, though. When you watch someone like the bombastic Neil Hamburger extol his poetic vitriol with total commitment, you can't help but fall in love.

WICF: If you were not in comedy production, what would you be doing?

Jeff: Good question. I'm still trying to figure that out, especially during my "in between gigs" times. I imagine it would still be something comedy-related.

I've begun teaching these comedy workshops, which is a completely different tangent from producing shows yet still related to this universe. I've enjoyed them tremendously so far and look forward to more. I also would like to pursue writing more. I've written material for many of my productions and have had the privilege to collaborate with reputable writers, including one of my comic idols Robert Smigel.

I have an MBA and figured I could put that to good use. But the thought of going to work at a place like Proctor & Gamble, marketing Gillette razor blades, makes me ill. Though I take my hat off to the genius who came up with the idea of the blue indicator strip that fades when it's time to change blades. That thing turns white after two shaves. What a racket!

WICF: As comedians, we constantly hear that industry is looking for "edgy". We don't really know what this means. How do you define edgy as it relates to comedy?

Jeff: It's an industry buzz word that's been around forever. By definition it means to be daring and provocative. Having a sharp edge, unlike a twice-used Gillette razor blade (sorry, couldn't resist).

I think it also refers to the expression "over the edge," which alludes to the edge of sanity. An edgy comic takes someone by surprise with their material, forces them to think differently about things they may find offensive or discomforting.

Most comics labeled "edgy" usually have a dark sense of humor. But that's not always the case. It relates to what I was saying earlier, about possessing the courage to take risks. Having the balls to say things that would make most people cringe, and turning that around into laughs. Although overused, it's ultimately a compliment because the flip side is being generic, dull, common, middle-of-the-road. Nobody wants that.

Surely not the safest path, but "edgy" gets respect and attention.

WICF: How are the comedians at typical comedy festivals different from comedians one might see on Comedy Central?

Jeff: It really depends on the festival. In my experience there's plenty of crossover. Many comics with half hour and one-hour Comedy Central specials will appear at comedy festivals around the world. Comic correspondents on “The Daily Show” are festival staples, too. You'll see more up-and-coming new talent at festivals and local hometown heroes who may not have as much national exposure.

Big comedy festivals also showcase a broader range of talent and programming. For instance, at Just For Laughs in Montreal, there are solo shows, sketch shows, theme shows, international shows, theatrical shows, in addition to pure stand up.

In 2010, comics like Jack Whitehall, Tim Minchin, and Bridget Everett received critical and audience acclaim. None of them have been on Comedy Central yet to my knowledge, or at least by that point in time. So the festival setting allows for that first-time discovery.

Again, the size and scope of a festival will determine the crossover percentage. Go to Edinburgh or Melbourne and you'll see stuff you'd never see on American TV. I think the biggest difference is the live experience vs. the TV show package.
There's nothing better than seeing a comic live.

Festivals allow comics to do what they want on a stage, whereas networks like Comedy Central have more restrictions, creatively and logistically. And now you're starting to see some collaborations, or "comedy jamming," like Jon Dore and Rory Scovel's hilarious bit or Reggie Watts working with friends on the music show. These experimental moments start at the festivals before landing on television.

WICF: What's your all-time favorite movie?

Jeff: "The Jerk" is one of my favorite comedies. It's the first movie my Dad ever brought home on VHS and I've seen it a hundred times. I grew up watching comedies with over-the-top characters like this Steve Martin classic, and "The Party", with Peter Sellers. They don't make good movies like that anymore, with rare exceptions such as "Borat".



Ironically for a guy who works in comedy, I now lean towards dramas. And heavy ones too, like my favorites "The Killing Fields", "Midnight Express", and "Deliverance".  "Birdy" is at the top of my list. I read the book and am obsessed with the movie. The Peter Gabriel score is haunting. And it's got some really funny moments in it too.

WICF: Do you see stand ups whose end goal is to be a stand up or does everyone want their own sitcom?

Jeff: It used to be that a comic's ultimate goal was to get his or her own sitcom. That was before the internet explosion and the birth of reality TV. Technology and the ability for anyone to become a "star" have changed the playing field. So now I'm seeing young comics whose goal is to do anything and everything at the highest level: writing, acting in TV/movies, directing, hosting, making short films, live touring, radio, podcasts, you name it. It's not just about landing the sitcom anymore. That's much harder to achieve these days anyhow. Plus, the concept of the traditional "sitcom" has transformed. Look at what Larry David and Louis C.K are doing. Comics want to create and star in their own vehicle, whatever that may be. And the range of the business has expanded. There are more late night talk shows now than ever before for writers. Tons of comedy websites, personal blogs, Facebook, YouTube. Webisodes at places like Hulu and My Damn Channel, iTunes, where you can distribute digital CDs and podcasts. A stand up's career can go in so many different directions today.

Ben Bailey became a star driving a taxi on “Cash Cab.” Artie Lange landed his dream job on satellite radio with Howard Stern. Tom Kenny, the voice of Sponge Bob, started as a stand up. Chelsea Handler was a stand up before getting her own talk show and becoming a best-selling author. Frank Caliendo still contributes comedy bits and football picks to FOX's “NFL Sunday” show. Howie Mandel made a fortune hosting “Deal or No Deal.” Judd Apatow was a stand up and now a writing/directing/producing icon. The list goes on.

I think this generation realizes they can carve out their own unique path in comedy, and be successful. That all said, I still come across comics whose goal is to simply become a famous stand-up comedian. I always enjoy hearing that.

WICF: There seem to be more festivals in recent years — what does this do for stand-up comedy as a whole, for comedians, and for you as a producer?

Jeff:Yeah, I've noticed that myself. I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, it's good for comedians and stand up as a whole. It shines a brighter light on the craft, gives comics more stage time with access to bigger audiences and wider publicity. Much like music festivals do for bands. I support that.

On the other hand, it has the potential of diluting the talent pool if standards aren't kept high. In other words, some cities put together a bunch of comedians and call it a "Festival" when it's nothing more than packaging and marketing the same comedians and shows you can see year round. Or, there's no real screening process and anything goes. Audiences see an inferior product, which unfairly taints everyone involved. Or worse, they can't tell the difference between good and bad comedy.

I compare it to expansion in professional sports leagues. Some fans love the idea of adding teams to Major League Baseball. More cities, more match-ups, more players to watch. Fans in Arizona, Colorado, Tampa and Miami were thrilled to finally get their own franchises. But others think it elevates players from the minors too quickly, pitching is weaker overall and league competition isn't as strong. As a producer, the same applies. The more events where I can produce shows, the merrier. You just hope the infrastructure is solid and that you get the proper support to pull it off properly.

WICF: Many of us here at WICF find stand-up comedy competitions puzzling, since by nature comedy is subjective and tastes vary wildly. Having served as a judge on many comedy competitions, what is your view on their ability to find the best talent?

Jeff: You are absolutely correct. Comedy is subjective. That's the nature of this business. I understand why you find competitions puzzling. I wouldn't blame you if you simply hate them. But subjectivity extends beyond judging a competition. You want to get booked in a club? Well, the reality is, you're competing with hundreds of others who want the same thing. The decision may come down to the owner, who has the last word based on her personal tastes. Auditioning for a TV show or festival? Now it's three or four people "judging" you. Have a job interview at Disney? Get ready to be judged, Judy. Life's a competition and fair or not, decision-makers often go by what they like personally without being objective. I don't like it myself. In the context of a live comedy competition, I view it more as a platform where multiple comics get a chance to thrive. It's not only about the so-called "winner.” And the judging panels usually comprise three to four people. So the consensus may not be unanimous, either. Generally speaking, if I am working with peers who have experience and discerning taste, we more or less wind up agreeing on the few who make it up the ladder.

I've been on both sides though. At some competitions I've been mystified over the winners. It wasn't from my vote. That usually happens when the judging pool is six or seven people, which is too many. But hey, who's to say my pick was right? It's just my opinion. If you base the judging on comparative objective criteria, you can reduce some of the subjectivity. I may not be personally fond of a comic's style or material, but if he's got the mechanics down pat, is memorable and earns the laughs, he'll deserve to advance or even win.

It's important to remember that competitions are in the here and now. You're judged on how you do that night, or the course of that particular competition. Tomorrow's a new day. Last year, in Atlanta, I was a judge at the Laughing Skull Festival. Ben Roy, a comic I had previously scouted in Denver and really liked, was a contestant. He had a rough set and didn't even make it to the semi-finals, which surprised me. Cut to four months later, he's one of the standout New Faces in Montreal, getting tons of buzz, signing with an agent, and kicking off his headlining career. From my perspective, finding the best talent doesn't happen in one night. A competition is just another showcasing avenue with prizes and accolades. If you manage to win, it's a nice feather in your cap. If you don't, it's just the last gig you did. Keep your chin up, on to the next.  That's the world of stand up comedy.
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January 18, 2011

Gluten
by Unknown - 0

By WICF Contributor Alison Royer.

Are you familiar with Gluten? This is typically the first question I ask people when they want to know what it’s like to live in LA. Gluten is a mysterious substance that anorexic women everywhere are crazy about. No one knows what it is yet thin women contend it’s in everything making it easier for them to refuse all forms of food. Brilliant. What’s more, they don’t merely claim that it’s bad for you. They assert that upon eating supposed Gluten, they suffer a severe allergic reaction. When prodded about the symptoms of this alleged allergy, most women will tell you that it, “makes their belly hurt.”

Now, I’m not a doctor, but I have a cousin with a shellfish allergy and once, after eating half a shrimp, that kid shit his brains out, yakked everywhere and had to be rushed to the hospital. I highly doubt that leggy blonde women are carrying EpiPens around in case they have a run-in with a piece of pizza.

Furthermore, there seems to be a new trend sweeping the nation in which skeletal women refuse dairy. All the waifish women in Hollywood have banded together and declared dairy an absolute no-no. Really ladies? You’ve decided that an ENTIRE FOOD GROUP just isn’t cutting it for you? I’m sure the Got Milk campaign isn’t real thrilled with your antics.

No but seriously, what the fuck is Gluten? You could contend that this is all a ruse by a chubby, Midwestern girl to get her finger on the pulse of a dietary breakthrough but at the end of the day I just want to know what it is! Is it bigger than a breadbox? Can I not say the word bread around you because of your life-threatening allergy?

In an unprecedented move, I’m proclaiming that Gluten doesn’t exist and I’m no longer going to tolerate its terrorist threats. From what I understand it can be found in pasta, cake, cookies and all forms of sandwiches. If I could get my pudgy little hands on this purported Gluten I would…and then I would eat the shit out of it.

Alison Royer is an LA-based comedian, and WICF contributor!
-This post has been cross-posted with Alison's blog, "This Is Going To Work."
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January 14, 2011

New Contributor Alison Royer on "The Dildo Theory"
by Unknown - 1

Living in Los Angeles is a real dick up the ass. I say this as a woman who does not enjoy a dick up her ass. At least I don't think I do. I've never had one up there but it sounds wretched. So wretched in fact that I've built an entire survival approach around this potential happening. I like to call it The Dildo Theory.

As I wake up each day in sunny California, I feel rejuvenated and refreshed. This is likely because, like a goldfish, I have a pea sized brain and short term memory loss. If only I could remember the pain from the day before. Whether it be a nine-month pregnant woman bashing into my car (that happened), my agent sending me a breakdown looking for fat people and concluding that I'm perfect for it (happened), or some new man who’s refusing to sleep with me (this one’s a constant) I always find myself in some horrid altercation that is painful, uncomfortable, and embarrassing.

I'm a solution-oriented person so I began to conjure up ways to feel slightly better as each day passes. There's nothing worse than brimming over with positivity only to be jacked around by the human race. I started to believe that there had to be a way to ease the horrifying pain which is my life.

Much like a man who beats his brow against a wall to alleviate a headache, I’ve concluded that if I start each day by ramming a dildo up my ass, things won't be so unbearably painful later on. Just hear me out. Each day in Los Angeles, I am attacked by people, places and things who are seemingly trying to kill me. Los Angeles is a torture chamber and positive thinking has gotten me nowhere. As a matter of fact, I believe its positive thinking that is making it worse. I firmly believe that if I start each day by jamming a dildo up my asshole I won’t be so angry, hurt or surprised later, since I had already begun my day in a manner that insisted things could only get better. So tomorrow morning, when I go to the dentist and find out I have 8 cavities (happened), or I’m diagnosed with a bacterial infection (gross but yes) or I find out my apartment is swarming with bed bugs (I don’t want to talk about it) I’ll find solace in the fact that nothing could be as excruciating as the giant dildo that I drove into my anal cavity that morning, right before I got a burn hole in my skirt on the way to work.


Alison Royer is a LA-based comedian, and WICF contributor!
-This post has been cross-posted with Alison's blog, "This Is Going To Work."
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January 10, 2011

Rachel Dratch in "New York Magazine": The Year in Boston Accents
by Unknown - 0

By WICF Editor Liz McKeon


Here at WICF, we love Rachel Dratch for the faces she pulls, for the voices she does, and because, as a Massachusetts native, she knows why it's so freakin' funny to have a character do anything in the parking lot behind Kappy's.

New York Magazine features Dratch in their slideshow, eviscerating this year's filmic crop of Bostonian accents.
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January 5, 2011

8th Podcast Episode Up: Harry Gordon and MC Mr. Napkins
by Unknown - 0

Michelle and Maria interview comedian Harry Gordon about his show, Harry Gordon Roasts America: Political Polemic, and about that thing he found in his pants. Plus music from the debut album from rising rap star, MC Mr. Napkins (aka Zach Sherwin), and an interview with Henrietta.

Download it directly here, get it for iTunes here, and check out all of the WICF podcasts here.
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January 2, 2011

Cynthia Carle and Mark Nutter: How Your Christmas Smackdown Gets Made
by Unknown - 0

By WICF Editor Liz McKeon


Reviewers can be too quick – or lazy – to label comedy shows “irreverent” and “witty.” So what am I to do when trying to describe Cynthia Carle and Mark Nutter’s Christmas Smackdown? They’ve produced an irreverent, witty, well-paced send-up of the traditional Christmas show. And if I took out the trite descriptors and only called the show “well-paced,” well, I’d be doing its authors a disservice.

I spoke with Nutter and Carle in December, after their show opened at iO Chicago. They graciously told me of Christmas Smackdowns past, present, and hopefully, future, as well as upcoming projects and their individual writing styles. And they were, yes, witty and irreverent while doing it,



The Cast of Christmas Smackdown.


WICF: I know you guys have performed the Christmas Smackdown in North Hollywood for several years.

Cynthia: Yes.

WICF: Is this a different version? Have you rewritten songs?

Cynthia: Yeah. We’ve spread our stuff – it’s just been me and Mark and a small chorus of people, so we just wanted to see what it would be like as a four-person review, eliminate the chorus and spread our songs out over four people.

Mark: And there are songs in the show that weren’t done ever, it’s a world premiere. “Severed Swedish Heads” is new, with the quartet, and–

Cynthia: “Here’s Your Present” is new.

Mark: “Here’s Your Present,” “The Gift of the Magi” are all new.

WICF: I was wondering – I figured, this is a really tight show, and it just seemed like that would be an amazing– if you guys rewrote this every single year, that would’ve been incredible.

Cynthia: No, just those three are brand new.

Mark: It actually started, we kind of added songs each year, that’s kind of how it grew until we got enough to make it a real live show. Smackdown was a couple of Christmas songs, and then our other stuff, which is also hilarious, but not holiday themed.

Cynthia: Right, and then we began to just sort of shoehorn everything into Christmas land, and it works.

WICF: It did. And it’s hard to do Christmas, because it’s so easy to lampoon it but it’s hard to maintain that level for an entire show.

Cynthia: Yeah, yeah it is.

Mark: There are some obvious places you can go to with Christmas, again and again, you know ... yeah, we know it’s too commercial.

Cynthia: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

Mark: We know it’s commercial, okay.

Cynthia: Yeah, we know that there’s endless emotional blackmail, that time of year. So we just try to come at it from many different kind of spiky spokes. Wow, did I just say spiky spokes?

Mark: That’s very eloquent of you.

Cynthia: Wow.

WICF: So, um, yeah, spiky spokes, sounds good. I have to tell you that the one that hit home for me was “The Sky Mall Song.”

Cynthia: Oh, cool! We have experience with the Sky Mall. Have you ever actually ordered anything from the Sky Mall catalogue?

WICF: No. Although I wonder, now that a lot of flights do have wifi online, I wonder how that’s gone up for them.

Cynthia: I don’t know. I kind of like that – as you said that, I was imagining watching a Sky Mall plane race alongside the plane as soon as you order your trampoline to come and shove it in the window.

Mark: It would cost a lot of extra shipping.

WICF: I wonder if they could just get it to show up at the gate. And, maybe if the adorable puppies also are included?

Cynthia: Oh yeah! And the 9 Volt Personal Dog-Off Deluxe to make sure the puppies never really get near you.


The Sky Mall, mall in the sky, how glossy the pages, how eager my eye, the wonder of retail thirty thousand feet high, my beautiful Sky Mall, mall in the sky. –Cynthia Carle, The Sky Mall Song


WICF: So how do you guys share or split the writing, the lyrics and the songs, do you have a method or is each song different?

Mark: Oh boy.

Cynthia: Yeah, this is kind of the “Brady Bunch” show. He brought nine songs and I brought nine songs, and we wrote two of our own together.

Mark: Yeah, there’s no real method, I wouldn’t dignify what we do – we’re not saying there’s any better method, we kind of like each other so if there’s a question or note that one of us has about another’s song, it’s taken to heart and changed, so there’s little tiny rewrites–

Cynthia: Oh yeah.

Mark: –you know, all throughout everything. Some are Paul McCartney’s exclusively and some are John Lennon’s.

Cynthia: That’s right. That’s very well put.

WICF: How long have you guys been working together?

Mark: Five years.

Cynthia: Five years, I think.

Mark: Yeah.

WICF: I read on, oh I’m not sure whose bio., that you guys sometimes appear together on the Comedy Central Stage’s Sit ‘N’ Spin.

Cynthia: Yeah.

Mark: We’ve done a bunch of Sit ‘N’ Spins. We did the Christmas stuff there too.

Mark: I was just going to ask you – where are you now, Liz?

WICF: I’m in Ukrainian Village.

Cynthia: Wow.

Mark: We can see you from our apartment. We’re on the 27th floor here, so we’ve got, you know, sweeping landscape of the west side.

Cynthia: It’s just silly up here.

WICF: Where are you guys?

Mark: We’re at [redacted].


The joy I got from giving gifts is now a distant memory, but the obligation still remains like the phantom limb on an amputee. –Mark Nutter, Here's Your Present


WICF: So how did you guys – I know you said you were interested in seeing how this worked as a review, and here you’ve got the four-part harmony, when did you decide to just take yourselves out of it entirely, performance-wise?

Cynthia: Well, it’s funny you should ask, I would’ve been very interested in doing it here, except I’m Equity, and iO is a non-Union joint, so that was not an option?

WICF: Does that mean you could never perform for them?

Cynthia: Apparently. I guess that’s right, although I guess, every so often Charna [Halpern]’s kind of done a union contract thing, but they’re going to be moving soon, to a new location, so I’m sure a lot of things will be, you know, sort of chaotic until all that, but I’ve never talked to her about that.

Mark: The other aspect is we kind of wanted to create something that could be franchised, something that we wouldn’t have to show up to do, and you know, for future Christmas’ something that we could take to other theater companies and have them to do it.

Cynthia: Yeah, this is one of those, well, I can picture it happening in a lot of places at once and basically, as the alternative Christmas thing. While the main stage of a lot of theaters, they run Christmas Carol because they have to, to survive, or The Grinch, because they have to, so this could be the other thing, sort of on their second stage.



Yes, there are recorders involved.

WICF: Sounds wonderful. So Mark, I know you did The Bicycle Men, at iO.

Mark: Yes.

WICF: Is that along the same lines, where it would just travel, or is this more of a yearly franchise?

Mark: The Bicycle Men hasn’t gotten there yet, but we’d like to see that happen as well, and yeah, it’s very similar.

Cynthia: Can I just – I want to say one thing about The Bicycle Men and about Mark Nutter, I – the way I met Mark Nutter was, a mutual friend said, “You’ve got to come and see The Bicycle Men.” I saw The Bicycle Men seven times before I ever met Mark Nutter. That is how much I loved The Bicycle Men.

Mark: And our mutual friend said, “You must meet my friend, Cynthia Carle, she’s seen your stuff seven times,” and I said, “Why would I want to meet her? She sounds insane. She sounds like a stalker.” But she wasn’t. And it worked out rather well. In fact, we even kind of suspect that we’re distant relations.

Cynthia: Yes, we think it’s actually possible. His mother’s side of his family comes from an area where my mother’s family came from, and I think if we went back far enough, we would find out that there’s some genetic relation.

Mark: Yeah, my mom’s from Paducah, KY, and apparently Cynthia has people in Possum Trot, which is not too far.

Cynthia: And Benton.

Mark: And Benton.

Cynthia: Which is not too far.

Mark: It’s just across the IL border, south of Carbondale.

WICF: So Mark, you’re from Chicago?

Mark: Yeah, I grew up near Joliet, and I came to school, I went to Loyala here in Chicago,

WICF: And then, Cynthia, you’re from NY, right, originally?

Cynthia: Yeah, I lived in NY for a really long time, it’s kind of the home of my heart. I’m originally from LA and I’m living in LA right now, but I miss NY every day. And I like Chicago a lot.

WICF: It’s sort of an interesting cross between them.

Cynthia: Gosh, I wouldn’t even have thought that, somebody said it’s like The American City, I get that part, I don’t know, NY’s many things but it’s not really America.

WICF: Can you tell me a little bit about the process? How was casting this show, was it this labor of love and you have to find the correct people, or did the perfect people just walk in and you knew them?

Mark: Well, that’s a long story. We had auditions. You know, we put out ads here in Chicago and had open casting. I used to do a lot of theater here but I left in 1987, so you know, I wasn’t that well-connected anymore. And it was kind of a way to get back into theater since I’m relocating here again. But we had to have open auditions to see who was available.

Cynthia: And then you had seen some stuff at iO that had a couple of people in it, who for sure we wanted to see.


He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows that you're maturing with ev 'ry breath you take. He knows that you've had feelings that make you warm down there, when thinking of a teacher, or straddling a chair. –Mark Nutter, Santa Claus Lives in Your Mind


Mark: Yeah, Tim Soszko’s in the cast, he’s also in Cupid has a Heart On, The Cupid Players’ musical that runs at iO on Saturday, and I said, ooh, I want this guy, for sure.

Cynthia: He walked in and Mark had said, there’s this guy, and there was indeed. Tim’s astonishing, he’s just great.

Mark: And I also had seen Lyndsay Hailey, because she performs with the Deltones at iO. And then, some other people that I saw, we asked to audition, but we needed more than two or three people.

Cynthia: We finally saw about forty/forty-odd people, some odder than others.

Mark: And then when we found David Wrigley and Molly Todd, both of them just kind of recent Chicago residents.

Cynthia: And they’re great, Lyndsay is fantastic, David and Molly are just wonderful, I just love our people, I really do.

WICF: How long has it taken you to decide that you were going to perform this as a review, up to Tuesday night?

Cynthia: A couple of, um, three months? I guess we talked about it sort of randomly for awhile, and then we actually just sort of sat down at the end to organize it. I guess about three months, does that sound right?

Mark: I think Charna said, “Come on in and do it,” in June, so that’s when we really started.

Cynthia: Really?! That long ago? Okay, I’m hallucinating, it was June.

WICF: So was it always going to be at iO?

Mark: It could’ve been anywhere, and then we were trying to figure out where we could do it and, duh, I said, I’ve got to talk to Charna.

Cynthia: Charna is great and the space is wonderful.

Mark: She’s a great host.

Cynthia: Yeah, she’s lovely.

Mark: You know, and we had some luck with The Bicycle Men at both her theaters, you know iO in LA and iO here, and I said, this makes sense.

WICF: So how did you guys find Lisa McQueen?

Mark: Lisa played for a musical I wrote that was here in Chicago and off-Broadway in 1993, called Wild Men!, it was a musical based on the men’s movement, and – do you remember the men’s movement?

WICF: Drum circles?

Cynthia: There were these men, and they had a movement.

Mark: There was this book called Iron John, on the New York [Times’] Best Seller list, by Robert Bly, and that kind of sparked things off, and men who felt emasculated in modern society would all go into the woods and beat drums and–

Cynthia: And something about sweating.

Mark: Sit in sweat lodges and then go off and talk to the ghosts of their fathers, you know, and then come back $600 poorer, but more in touch with their masculinity. And so it seemed like a premise to write for a musical. So that played here, George Wendt was in the cast here, and Dick Lewman and Joe Liss, who became part of The Bicycle Men, Peter Burns, Rob Riley, and Lisa played piano.

WICF: Wow, that’s quite the beginning of a relationship there.

Mark: Well yeah, that’s where it started, and then I hadn’t seen her for 17 years, and then I was asking around, looking for a piano player, and her name came up, and I was like, oh, I hope we get her, and we did.

Cynthia: Yeah, she’s great, she’s like a fifth cast member, she’s got an amazing feeling for the show and ability to pick up dropped stuff and kind of run – she’s like this kind of great spirit and shepherd over there – that really sounds sort of nauseating but it’s really true, she’s just wonderful.



Lyndsay Hailey, David Henry Wrigley, Tim Soszko, and Molly Todd,
in their element.

WICF: When you guys were talking about how this would be great, to franchise it, it’s sort of the real life version of “Christmas Standard.”

Cynthia: Yes! It is. And I never thought of that! That’s terrifying, but you’re right.

WICF: Are there plans to record this, or sell it outside of this particular run?

Cynthia: Yes, there are. I’m not sure exactly how and precisely when that’s going to happen, but it is going to happen.

Mark: It will happen. Finally. Finally, we have enough to fill a CD, so yeah, it’s going to happen. We’ve gotten a lot of requests from the last few LA Smackdowns for it so we’re going to do that, but we wanted to do this first.

WICF: Do your friends in LA feel like you’ve abandoned them, now that you’re not performing it for them this year?

Cynthia: We are performing it for them this year! We’re going to go back and do the Smackdown three nights in the same place, and it’s, ah, weird. It’s going to be a weird feeling.

Mark: Yeah, we go back, and then I’m coming back here for the last two nights of Smackdown. Maybe I’ll even play one of these here.

Cynthia: It’s the 16th, 17th, and 18th of December, in LA.

WICF: So that’ll be the two of you performing it in LA, while your cast is performing it here.

Cynthia: Yeah.

WICF: Wow. You should simulcast that.

Mark: It’s like the Blue Man Group, but you know, without the blue faces.

Cynthia: We could do that.

Mark: We could do that, though.

Cynthia: I have the blue stuff.


Here we come a'wassailing, tell me, what the hell was that about? In days of yore you'd break down a stranger's door and drink 'til his wife would throw you out. –Cynthia Carle, Severed Swedish Heads


WICF: So I was looking at both of your websites and listening to your songs and stuff, and I was wondering - and this is for both of you, separately – is comedy your true love? It seems like you both focus on that, but you’re really Renaissance performers.

Cynthia: Gee, that’s a nice thing to say.

Mark: A very nice thing to say.

Cynthia: Mark, you can field that first.

Mark: Oh yeah, it’s never not been comedy. Yeah, I’ve never even had a thought of doing anything other than comedy. And even when I have attempted serious things, they were funny, so I really have no choice.

Cynthia: It’s funny, you really intended to write War and Peace, and it came out Wild Men! I do write other stuff, I do write serious stuff and I have friends who like my serious stuff more than they want – like they’re saying, can you take one of your CDs and peel out the comedy, and just send me the serious stuff? And I said, sure.

Mark: Her serious stuff is great.

Cynthia: I like it all. It depends, really, on what’s going on on a given day in my head, or I’ll wake up with some little idea, it sort of has to be one thing or the other. So no, I can’t really say that I have a first love, I guess–

WICF: And what is it?

Cynthia: –it’s whatever.

WICF: Oh! Well, thank you guys very much. What’s up next?

Cynthia: Oh, tell her about Re-Animator.

Mark: Well yeah, I’m going back to LA to mount a musical that I wrote with Stuart Gordon, based on the film Re-Animator, a 1985 horror film. And yeah, I’ve been working on that for the last couple of years. We’re going to do a production of that in February, in Los Angeles.

Cynthia: And, I just have to tell you that his score for this is just amazing, just fantastic. And I think it should be a huge hit.

Mark: Oh thank you. And Cynthia Carle may be in the show too, which is really cool.

WICF: Awesome. And Cynthia, do you have anything you’re writing coming up?

Cynthia: Yeah, my husband and I write together a lot, my husband is Chris Reed, and we write together –

Mark: We’re not married, did you know that?

Cynthia: We’re not, did you know we weren’t married?

WICF: I did know that.

Cynthia: Oh, okay.

WICF: Just because I looked it up.

Mark: Okay. Because somebody asked us, one show, after we did “All the Best,” you know, they said, “Are you two married?” And we said, “Not anymore.”

Cynthia: They seemed pleased with the answer, so we’ve said it a couple of times. But yeah, my husband and I write mostly features together, and we’ve got interest in some stuff and we’ll be out pitching some stuff, just the usual kind of, you know, groveling sort of stuff that we do. You know, it’s really almost like we don’t like LA, but we have to live there, because even though you can write anywhere, you have to be in LA for the groveling.

WICF: Sounds like a life lesson.

Cynthia: Yeah, yeah, probably a song about kneepads in there somewhere.

WICF: So where are you both staying right now for the run of the show?

Cynthia: In Mark’s penthouse. Wheee!

Mark: And again, we will go out on the porch and wave.

Cynthia: Yeah, it’s blue, can you see us? I’m waving now.



Mark Nutter and Cynthia Carle, on stage in LA.

WICF: Is there anything that you wanted to say, or anything that you never get asked?

Cynthia: Wow, um, jeez, nobody’s ever asked me why I shop at thrift stores? Mark, is there anything you want to talk about?

Mark: There is another thing, you know, please come see our show, it’s really funny. And may I list some influences?

Cynthia: You’re going to have to – you list your influences, but you’re going to have to speak for yourself, because I don’t even know who my influences are. I mean, I know who I love, but I don’t know if they’re my influences.

Mark: I know who I love, too, and I guess that they could be considered influences.

Cynthia: Okay, go.

Mark: Tom Lehrer, Randy Newman, and Harry Ruby.

Cynthia: Of those, I’m a huge Randy Newman fan.

Mark: You’re a Harry Ruby fan, too.

Cynthia: I’m a huge Harry Ruby fan, too, that’s true. And Tom Lehrer, I appreciate the groundbreaking-ness of Tom Lehrer, but I don’t find that I actually end up howling when I hear it.

WICF: Fair enough. And just a question on process, for both of you: What usually comes first, the music or the lyrics?

Mark: That’s a good one.

Cynthia: For me, I’m really happy when they show up at the same time. And the next best thing for me is just a little chunk of music that has some rhythmic hook in it, and it’s a little piece of rhythm? And then some music and then lyrics on that. Unless, I’m just obsessing about some idea that actually does kind of roll out in words first – that’s kind of rarer for me, but it has happened. But I love to start with musical rhythm.

Mark: For me, it’s usually concept and then a word, and then if there’s words that kind of sing, with the title, and then if there’s three good jokes that can be mined from that field, then I go ahead and write the song.

Cynthia: There are some things that you’ll get – I can’t even think of a good example, but sometimes you can get an idea that’s really a great one liner, and just doesn’t – you can’t spin it out into anything.

Mark: No, and we talk about this too, you’ll hear a lot of novelty songs out there that are one idea, repeated ad nauseum, because there’s just kind of no drama to it–

Cynthia: –done to death.

Mark: Yeah, done to death.

Cynthia: And you can make a list of songs, you know, there’s a lot of political stuff that’s going to end up feeling like that, where various people just sort of say the names of some people in Washington, and I guess that’s actually kind of the joke, and it always makes me a little puzzled.




Christmas Smackdown at iO Chicago Theater
Tuesday, Wednesdays, and Thursdays, November 30-December 16, 2010
Written, Directed, and Music & Lyrics by Mark Nutter and Cynthia Carle
Starring Lyndsay Hailey, Tim Soszko, Molly Todd, and David Henry Wrigley, with Lisa McQueen at the piano
Lights & Tech by Michael Balzer
Read More