Geeking Out with...Ms. Jackson by Pam Victor Wednesday, March 28, 2012 - 0

by WICF Contributor Pam Victor

[“Geeking Out with…” is a series of interviews with well-known, highly experienced improvisers. It’s a chance to talk about stuff that might interest hardcore, improv dorkwads like me. The series can be found in full frontal geek out version on My Nephew is a Poodle and in pithier version on the Women in Comedy Festival blog.]

I’ve never had a three-way before, mostly because I’m not great at multi-tasking and I’m uncomfortable with the unexpected ejection of body fluids. Therefore, I embarked upon the four-way geek out session with the ladies of the acclaimed improv troupe Ms. Jackson with a combination of trepidation and excitement – plus relief there would be no explosive love juices involved. Jessica Allen Eason (Neutrino, Edinburgh Fringe Festival and HBO’s Aspen Comedy), Tara Copeland (Mother, Baby Wants Candy and HBO's Curb Your Enthusiasm), and Rebekka Johnson (Neutrino, The Apple Sisters) gathered together in Los Angeles, while I shot questions across the country to them from the (mostly) fluid-free safety of my western Massachusetts home. The fourth Ms. Jackson, Bayne Gibby (HBO's The Comeback and Enlightened), had work obligations that prevented her from joining in the fray, but you can see her this fall in season two of Enlightened with Laura Dern and Mike White, where she plays Connie, a religious, rightwing oddball. Even one player fewer, these wild ponies were tough to corral, as they ricocheted ideas off one another, furiously answering my questions often in the same vein and simultaneously with the super evolved groupmind reserved for intensely tight troupes. And any qualms I had about taking them on all at once quickly dissipated as they slurped me up into their fun ‘n games, like the generous players that they are.

Ms. Jackson formed in New York around 2001 in order to participate in one of the first Del Close Marathons, and they have played at the Upright Citizen’s Brigade Theatre, the Magnet Theatre and the People’s Improv Theatre, where they had a regular show for many years. You will know Ms. Jackson when you see them, for they all wear snazzy, matching tracksuits. (These ladies are so fashion-forward, they donned the tracksuits well before Sue Sylvester made them comically famous.) Using music as their inspiration, this all-female group spins a montage of scenes with such distinctive skill they won the ECNY award for “best improv troupe” in 2004. Since then, Ms. Jackson has relocated to Los Angeles, where they currently play. No matter where they go, that’s where the party is. As they say, Ms. Jackson is FOR REAL.

***

PAM VICTOR: Welcome, ladies! I've never done a four-way before, so thanks for your willingness to do this experiment with me.

TARA COPELAND: No problem.

JESSICA ALLEN EASON: We're excited!

PAM: I'll tell you quickly about myself, so you don't imagine I’m some one-toothed hag sitting in her parents' basement...

REBEKKA JOHNSON: I wish you only had one tooth.

PAM: I am a one-toothed hag sitting in my parents' basement.

TARA: LOL.

PAM: In addition, I founded my own all-female improv troupe almost ten years ago in western Mass. There was almost no improv comedy community here, so I collected talented improvisers and forced them to work with me.

TARA: That's what Jess did with us.

PAM: Oh yeah? How did Ms. Jackson get started?

TARA: So, basically in 2001 for the Del Close Marathon (we think - it was the first or second marathon) Jessica wanted to do a show, so she invited a group of women to perform.

JESSICA: I had formed two other groups before - mixed groups - and I just wanted a kind of best of the best.

REBEKKA: I wasn't a glimmer in their eye yet.

TARA: The original group was me, Jess, Bayne, Stephanie Kasen, Lecy Goranson, Rebecca Tingley, and Caitlin Miller. We thought that we'd only do the one show, so we choreographed a dance for our opening. Anyway, people LOVED us.

PAM: Yay!

Three of the Ms. Jacksons:
Jessica Allen Eason, Bayne Gibby, and Rebekka Johnson

TARA: And they kept asking when our shows were going to be, so we kept doing shows [at various theatres in NYC.] We bought jumpsuits and choreographed more dances.

REBEKKA: It was magical. I was in Neutrino with Jess and was a huge fan for 10 years.

TARA: We used to open AND close the show with a dance.

PAM: Explain the dance part to me.

TARA: We literally started the show with a dance to a real song. First it was “Ms Jackson” by Outkast, then Janet Jackson’s "Nasty Boys," then NSync’s "Pop" and then JLo’s "I'm Real." And the end of the show was the song starts again and we do the dance again, and hit a hard pose, and lights out. Then eventually we started doing Hot Spot as our opening, and then using the songs from the opening to edit and inspire the scenes.

PAM: Jess, you said you were going for the “best of the best” improvisers. What inspired you to form a group solely made up of women?

JESSICA: I just wanted to play with funny, great people. And I had been in a group - Stencil with Stephanie Kasen & Lecy Goranson. I had improvised Rebecca Tingley in her all-girl group the Hester Prynnz. I knew Bayne and Caitlin through Shira Piven. And I didn't know Tara at all but had heard she was new hot stuff at the UCB. And she was - it was true.

TARA: I was on the Harold team Mother with James [Eason], who turned out later to be Jess' husband!

PAM: So, Jess, were you specifically going for all-female? Or was it just that your favorite improvisers were women?

JESSICA: I just wanted to play with people who made me laugh and who were awesome.

TARA: The best improvisers…

JESSICA: …and new people…

TARA (simultaneously): …which happened to be all women.
JESSICA (simultaneously): …and they all happened to be ladies.

PAM: I hear that sometimes UCB can be a hard place to be a female improviser. Do you think that had anything to do with the group's formation?

TARA: No, that's not why we formed the group. Honestly, it was just, “Let's do a fun show in the marathon.”

REBEKKA: I don't think it is necessarily hard for women at UCB. It's generally competitive for everyone.

TARA: I agree with Rebekka.

JESSICA: Agree three.

PAM: Ok. I guess it seems to me that players need to be pretty assertive in general to succeed at UCB...

TARA: Yes.

JESSICA: Yes.

REBEKKA: I don't feel discriminated against at UCB. In other areas of the biz, maybe.

[Ms. Jackson would like to note that they have never been a UCB improv group, so they are not able to speak for that theater; though they were kind enough to answer my questions as people who have trained and sometimes individually played there.]

JESSICA: I would go down that [need to be assertive] path more than the male/female, honestly.

REBEKKA: We are all pretty assertive.

TARA: Back then, the numbers were pretty skewed – a lot less women than men. But we were also just all really good, and that meant everything.

JESSICA: I think women are socialized to be 'polite' and that can really handicap you in improv.

PAM: I think you're right, Jess.

TARA: I have a platform about that when teaching, about women being polite.

REBEKKA: And I used to teach a female improv class at the PIT called “The Ladies’ Room.” My whole thing was to teach them to Be Aggressive. Like Amy Poehler.

PAM: Talk more about that.

REBEKKA: Hmm…. When men our funny, they are considered sexy. They can be unattractive and goofy and still look good. It is more uncomfortable for women in our society to look bad. When I taught my workshop, I tried to get women to lose that fear and not be afraid to play big, male characters. Edit hard and talk loud.

I don't want it to seem like I think women can't do these things. Sometime they just need a nudge to get aggressive. So many women are amazing improvisers now.

PAM: I know what you're saying, Rebekka. That tentativeness can be a hindrance, but I am wondering that every improviser NEEDS to be that aggressive.

TARA: Also, listen, if women get named wives and girlfriends in scenes a lot, it's because the men naming them that are bad improvisers. You can turn that shit around if you feel like it's something that happens a lot, right?

I also think that sometimes "aggressive" can be as simple as "being more specific" or "saying what you mean/feel."

JESSICA: I think you need to be confident - period. If you are, you can play with anyone anywhere; if you're not, it's gonna be hard. And you get confidence by doing many, many, many shows. Many bad, crazy, funny, fun, insane, great, shows. But you have to put the work in.

PAM: I don't mean to set up a male vs. female improviser dealio here. I guess the last show of the most recent DCM is still fresh in my mind. The famous ASSSCAT rapist monologue. And I thought the fact that there was not one female improviser on that stage was quite telling, especially since that show seems to feature some of the big names and favored players of the weekend.

TARA: That's ASSSCAT. What happens in that show is not indicative of NYC improv.

PAM: That's true, Tara. I was wondering if it was indicative of the UCB-NY world?

TARA: No, I don't think it is. I think ASSSSCAT is it's own thing. It lives in it's own space and always has. When I was taking classes at UCB in 1999, they used to tell us not to see ASSSSCAT because it was not necessarily the improv they were teaching, if that makes sense. It was a show in and of itself, and their signature show, and they were not doing the improv that they were teaching in that show.

REBEKKA: There were other great shows that we were in or looked up to, The Swarm, Mother, Neutrino…

PAM: We can move on to another topic...it's ok. I didn't mean to get all high-horsey on you. Back to Ms. Jackson...

JESSICA: There are many, many, many talented hilarious women at UCB NY and UCB LA, The PIT, The Magnet, IO West and Second City.

PAM: Absolutely!

TARA: Do you think UCB is anti-woman? or UCB-NY specifically?

PAM: I have never worked there, so I couldn't say. But from watching the shows, it seems to favor a male energy and style. (And by "male energy" I don't mean male-with-penis, if you know what I mean...)

TARA: UCB is about game - that is their main focus - and game is a heady concept. It’s like writing comedy in the moment. And listen, not to get too deep into it, but women are primarily more feeling than thinking.

REBEKKA: We like to use emotionally grounded scene work instead of focusing on game…

Tara Copeland, Jessica Allen Eason, Bayne Gibby

TARA: …We are from Venus after all…

REBEKKA: …Our vaginas make us feel…

TARA: …and so, performing from game as opposed to relationship and feelings might seem more male.

PAM: Right.

JESSICA: The game favors logic over emotion. Maybe that’s why so many men are initially better at it. But as all improvisers do more shows and take more classes, that gap closes and the people who work hard and stick to their instincts always rise to the top.

PAM: Ok. I know what you mean. Game is totally male-energy. (I wrote an article on that very topic called “Should You Improvise More with Your Vagina?”)

TARA: But we didn't start this group to be about, "Ooooh, we're all women." It's part of our lives, I guess. But we don't think about it a lot. We are great because we're great at what we do. We're good improvisers. Period. Not good for a woman.

REBEKKA: I love that we are all women, though. It’s is so fun to come on stage wearing matching jumpsuits and sing, and then play men or women, high and low status, and dig into great scenework.

PAM: Tell me about the matching jumpsuits. Where did that come from?

TARA: It was Lecy's idea, and we loved it. We were doing these dances, and it made sense. So Lecy went to Modell's and bought us jumpsuits one day. They were blue…

JESSICA: …blue and white…

REBEKKA: …Adidas…

JESSICA: …with hoods, which used in the dance…

REBEKKA: …it made them super street…

JESSICA: Yes - Adidas - PLEASE SPONSOR US!

TARA: This was all WAY pre-Sue Sylvester…

JESSICA: …WAY before Glee.

TARA: We used to come out with the hoods covering our faces, and pull them back in the dance.

PAM: Badass bitches.

REBEKKA: Glee could sponsor us too.

JESSICA (simultaneously): …or Jane Lynch…

PAM (simultaneously): …or just Jane Lynch maybe…

PAM: JINX! If this interview doesn't hook you guys up with a sweet-ass sponsorship deal, then I don't know what will!

For REAL.

REBEKKA: Now we have these kickass fuchsia suits...

JESSICA: …audiences really respond to the suits…It's also a great way for us to be uniform and play all kinds of characters because people aren't concentrating on our clothes - and perfect to improvise in because we can move freely.

REBEKKA: First they think we are crazy. Then we say, “That's right, bitches. We brought it.”

TARA: Our whole attitude was, "We are street. We are real."

PAM: Tru dat. [I’m not racist. I’m from Detroit.]

With risk of seeming super uncool (I’m sure I’ll pull the veil off that façade eventually if I haven't already, so might as well get it out of the way), how is Ms. Jackson “for real”?

TARA: It was just our brand. We all believe in the production value of the show. Improv is so, ‘people standing around talking,’ you know?

PAM: Yes!

TARA: So we took it from the Outkast song…

JESSICA: …the Outkast song “I am for Real.”

TARA: …and we did a dance to JLo’s "I’m Real" as well…

JESSICA: …we love Outkast…they can sponsor us!

PAM: Yes!

REBEKKA: So can JLo. We need money! For more suits.

TARA: We wanted it to be more exciting than just standing around talking and being funny, so we created this whole brand around our group…all street, all the time.

PAM: Yeah, you guys do seem super street. Tough girls. Where did you all train? UCB-NY?

TARA: Yes, and also I did Chicago City Limits.

REBEKKA: I trained at UCB and also took workshops with Miles Stroth in Chicago. I started improvising in 1997 in college with Possible Side Effects. We still perform under the name Threat.

PAM: I know UCB is known for the guideline, “If this is true, what else is true?” Can you please explain how you use that philosophy in your improv?

JESSICA: Wait - my training!

PAM: Yes, everyone be quiet for Jess.

JESSICA: Thank you, Pam!

PAM: I am totally focused on you, Jess.

REBEKKA: You can sponsor us!

PAM: LOL! Yeah, I'm just fucking ROLLING in bucks in my mom's basement! You think if I had $$$, I wouldn't buy myself another fucking tooth?! [Readers: For the record, I don’t really live in my mom’s basement. The part about the one tooth is true though.]

Ok, Jess. Focus. Me. You.

JESSICA: I went to the New Actor's Workshop and studied w/Paul Sills - GENIUS! - and then started doing short form Keith Johnston-style at the school. Then I was put in a girl group formed by Shira Piven called Stencil. Then I started taking UCB classes. I studied with Armando Diaz, Kevin Mullaney, Amy Poehler, Ian Roberts and Matt Walsh.

PAM: Holy fuck. That was sooo worth waiting for. I wish I could touch you right now.

JESSICA: Basically, I wanted to be a serious actress but I ended up in a jumpsuit.

PAM: LOL! Meryl Streep WISHES she could dance in a jumpsuit and improvise.

JESSICA: She can sponsor us too.

REBEKKA: She can. She just needs a nudge.

PAM: Totally. She seems super nice. Just ask her. You must know her, living in L.A. and all?

Anyway, so the UCB "If that then what..."

TARA: Yeah, Ian used to teach that. If this is true, what else is true in a scene?

JESSICA: I agree with it 100%, and use it when I coach.

REBEKKA: It’s a good way to forward the scene. I think it can be useful in many ways.

PAM: So explain how it works for you. How you specifically use it in your work?

TARA: The idea is, "If that makes you cry, what else makes you cry?" It’s like, commit to what is true in your scene and keep playing it. It goes along with the idea, “If it gets a laugh, keep doing it.”

JESSICA: And it helps because you don't get stuck on 'things'. The scene is never about a stapler, bad hair, etc. - that's just one of the symptoms of the 'why,' why these things are bothering you. So you have endless paths to follow, and not just going back over and over the same ground.

PAM: Basically, a version of raising the stakes?

TARA: Not only raising, but staying true to them. It’s kind of the polite thing, right? So, if you are upsetting me in a scene, and you say, "Don't be upset," the polite thing that people would do is to stop being upset. And it kills the scene. Keep committing to what you've done…

REBEKKA: …and add to it…

TARA: And if it's true that you love baseball, what else?

REBEKKA: You are a jock…

TARA: …maybe you only eat hot dogs b/c that's what is served at baseball games…

REBEKKA: …maybe you wear uniforms and talk in baseball hand signals…

TARA: …and the song at your wedding is “Take Me Out to the Ballgame.”

JESSICA: (The Red Sox can sponsor us too.)

TARA: You are finding more and more funny things…

JESSICA: Exactly. It gives you endless possibilities…

TARA: …and the way you are finding them is from your one truth
that was easy to find.

PAM: LOL! You seem to be pretty close friends in real life. Do you think a personal connection with, and general affection for, your castmates is a key to good improv?

REBEKKA: Yes.

TARA: YES.

JESSICA: YES!!!

REBEKKA: I think it is best to have an outside connection.

TARA: Knowing and loving and trusting who you're on stage with is huge. In my classes, I'd spend at least an hour and a half of the first class just having the students talk about themselves and get to know each other. But I truly believe as a teacher, one of the best things I can do is create a class that loves to perform together.

JESSICA: Being close friends makes for feeling safe so you take more chances. You know everyone on stage has your back…

REBEKKA: …or your buns…

PAM: I love that. Buns, especially. Buttery buns.

REBEKKA: Thanks.

PAM: Here is a question from Mr. James Eason [Jessica’s husband] for each of the Ms. Jacksons: What do you consider to be your improv strength and your improv weakness? And, why?

TARA: I know Jessica's: Picking husbands.

PAM: Ha!

REBEKKA: I am good at committing emotionally.

TARA: My weakness is Dr. Pepper, in improv and in life.

REBEKKA: Sometimes I say crazy shit. That's a weakness.

JESSICA: I think all of us have similar strengths and that's why we play together soooo well.

TARA: I'm not good at rhyming.

JESSICA: We are all emotionally connected and aggressive.

REBEKKA: My arms are weak.

JESSICA: I'm HORRIBLE at rhyming.

JESSICA: He knows me well. My husband is pretty much awesome, and I love being married to a comedian/actor/improviser.

REBEKKA: My husband is an improviser too, but I guess he hates me.

JESSICA: I love Rebekka's husband – BJ Gallagher - very talented hilarious improviser.

BJ Gallagher,
improviser and husband
who he loves his wife very much.

[When later asked to rectify MY oversight, the aforementioned BJ Gallagher, Rebekka’s husband, stated, “I was a big fan of Ms. Jackson in New York and, now that my wife was added to the group here in LA, I am an even bigger fan! Ms. Jackson is a maelstrom of adept character improv that commonly outperforms most dudeprov in the category of dudeprov. They are among the best actresses and improv teachers I have been around from coast to coast. And they always keep it real without being called The Labia Lab, or Estrogenocide, or Barbie Factory or somesuch. (any ladygroups with those names, this is purely coincidence, but ...really??)”]

TARA: My strength is not letting James get me to admit my weaknesses in print.

PAM: HAHAHAHA!

JESSICA: TARA, THAT'S GOOD! Tara has been closer w/my husband longer than I.

TARA: I did sit with my hand on his crotch one night in Flint, MI. Now that belongs in PRINT!

JESSICA: Do you see how the magic happens? It's happening right now.

REBEKKA: Jess coached my husband over the years and she was very influential.

JESSICA: I made out with everyone on my Harold team….

PAM: Congratulations, Jess.

JESSICA: …and most of the guys on Mother too.

REBEKKA: On stage. She is not a whore.

PAM: So what are you all doing now? Start with how people can see you perform improv and then we'll get to your screen work.

TARA: We are performing all over LA. We have a Facebook page. People can follow to see when and where we are performing….I do Diamond Lion every Friday at UCB at 11pm.

REBEKKA: I perform in the all-female musical comedy trio, The Apple Sisters as well.

TARA: Rebekka's show, The Apple Sisters, is a-mah-zing…Jess, James and I are in a group called The Good, the Bad and the Snuggly.

REBEKKA: We also still do Neutrino…

PAM: Where do you do Neutrino?

REBEKKA: The Improv Lab [at The Improv] on the 2nd Tuesday of every month.

TARA: …And we write and audition and just generally try to get work on TV and in movies.

PAM: How is that whole TV/movie thing going? Does it make you miss the watch-each-other's-buns world of improv?

REBEKKA: We improvise at night and audition during the day.

PAM: Tara, you worked with Larry David in Curb Your Enthusiasm. How was that?

TARA: It was really amazing. They are all wonderful over there.

REBEKKA: I got to use my improv skills in the next Judd Apatow movie, This is 40!

PAM: Oh, wow!

REBEKKA: The Apple Sisters were also in Bridesmaids.

PAM: What the what????

REBEKKA: We were cut.

PAM: Dammit. Now I have to hate Kristen Wiig.

REBEKKA: No, I love her. She is amazing and sweet. Shit gets cut all the time. We are on the Bluray in the extended bridal shower scene.

PAM: Oh good.

TARA: Being cut out of movies is what we're all here for.

PAM: You don't suppose Kristen Wiig would...Naw….But if she doesn't sponsor you, than Apatow should.

TARA: She actually is our only sponsor right now. We're just trying to expand.

PAM: If you were in The Breakfast Club, which character would you have played in high school?

TARA: I was a theater geek, but also a smart kid. So I guess Anthony Michael Hall.

REBEKKA: Judd Nelson's part or Ally Sheedy.

JESSICA: I'm the brown Molly Ringwald.

TARA: Jessica literally was black Annie with an afro instead of a red wig in elementary school.

PAM: I wish I had seen that.

TARA: We all do.

JESSICA: True story. Black afro wig for finale, and a black standard poodle for Sandy called “Blackie”.

PAM: So it was like The Wiz version of Annie?

TARA: No, but Jess was dark skinned and they had no imagination.

JESSICA: The woman who directed the show groomed show standard poodles.

PAM: I really do hope Nipsy Russell was in it.

TARA: You can't call a poodle Sandy. It wouldn't make sense….only just hit me…for the first time in my whole life…that they dog was named Sandy because it was sandy colored. I thought it was just a cute name, short for Sandra. Wow. My world is rocked.

PAM: Hang in there, Tara. We've all been there.

REBEKKA: “Meet my dog Sandra…from 227.” Jackay!

PAM: I'll give Tara a moment to recuperate.

TARA: You have no idea. We are seriously cracking ourselves up. Rebekka just snorted.

PAM: I'm laughing away over here too, but it's sad and pitiful on account of the one tooth and the being alone. [Readers: If this interview were a horse-drawn wagon barreling down the lane, this is the point in the journey when the horses catch the irresistible scent of ripening apples, charge ahead with no heed to the driver, and send the wagon careening wildly out of control.]

REBEKKA: Toura!

PAM: LOL!

REBEKKA: …Jewsika….

JESSICA: …This is the MAGIC….I could be Jewish…

REBEKKA: …Black Annie…

JESSICA: …it's true…

TARA: …she has no idea…

PAM: …Black Jewish….

TARA: …I think she's an Indian princess, like Pocahontas…

REBEKKA: …I think she just goes tanning…

TARA: …you think you own whatever land you land on…

JESSICA: What?!

TARA: She was adopted from a port city in Colombia so she could be a serious hodge podge…

PAM: Are you quoting a Disney movie?

TARA: Always.

REBEKKA: Hodge podge! She is crafted!

PAM: I just let go of the reins of this interview.

REBEKKA: Neigh! I am a horse!

PAM: LOL!

JESSICA: Ha!

PAM: Ok, ok. We should rap up, so you can go be movie stars and hobnob with famous people...or whatever you people in L.A. do.

TARA: Let's rap up, yo’. Word.

PAM: Oh fuck. “Wrap.” “Wrap up.”

REBEKKA: We do coke off the Hollywood sign.

JESSICA: I love cocaine. I'm Colombian. PRINT THAT!

PAM: What would you like me to note specifically in your bio? This is the part when you promote yourselves...

I know Tara is doing a workshop somewhere in April...

TARA: At the Magnet.

PAM: Dammit. I knew that. I'm laughing too hard. . [“Sing Out Louise!” at the Magnet Theater on April 30, 2012.]

JESSICA: Hire me as your coach, LA….

TARA: …We all coach and teach…

JESSICA: …I teach workshops all over the country…

TARA: …I teach and coach musical improv…

REBEKKA: You can promote the Apple Sisters for me: www.theapplesisters.com. We are putting out a new album and just shot a bunch of shorts…

JESSICA: …Promote Real Housewives of South Boston….

TARA: … please promote my new website: www.taracopeland.net....and www.drpepper.com.

PAM: And if Emilio Estevez or someone else wants to sponsor you, should they just contact me?

TARA: They can email msjacksonimprov@gmail.com.

REBEKKA: …put a link to our Facebook too!

JESSICA: …http://jesseason.tumblr.com/…

TARA: Twitter: @tara_copeland…

JESSICA: Twitter - @jesspatsox…

REBEKKA: Twitter - @bekkadoodle…

TARA: Follow me on Pinterest! I have a really good rainbow board….

JESSICA: …She does…

REBEKKA: …Do not follow her on Pinterest…

PAM: Ok, Tara. Ok. I am not on Pinterest. I'm not allowed to do more social media.  At least until after I quit Words with Friends.

Thank you so much, Ms. Jackson!

REBEKKA: Thanks!!!

JESSICA: Thanks!!!!

PAM: (Ugh. This interview will be fun to edit…)

REBEKKA: (Good luck.)

***

Pam Victor is the founding member of The Ha-Ha’s, and she producesThe Happier Valley Comedy Shows in Northampton, MA. Pam directs, produces and performs in the comic soap opera web series "Silent H, Deadly H". Pam also writes mostly humorous, mostly true essays and reviews of books, movies and tea on her blog,"My Nephew is a Poodle," where you also can read a lengthier, dorkier version of this interview.

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